How Real Estate Challenges Reveal the Secrets to Abundant Success with James Shelby

Transcript

[Mattias]
Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Mattias, an agent and investor.

[Erica]
And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist.

[Mattias]
Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing.

[Erica]
Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors.

[Mattias]
Ready to level up?

[Erica]
Let’s do it.

[Mattias]
Oh, the weather outside is spooky. Welcome back to the REI Agent. It is Halloween.

[Erica]
And it’s going to be 79 degrees today where we are.

[Mattias]
Yeah, spooky. We have, I think, two Taylor Swifts today, dressed up as Taylor Swift. One was a Taylor Swift mermaid princess, but I think now she’s just Taylor Swift, right?

[Erica]
Yes, said she may be a gymnast later, but the outfit doesn’t change.

[Mattias]
Yeah, it’s a leotard. And then we have Mickey Mouse, our little guy, little dude, two-year-old is Mickey Mouse. He was a cow the last time we dressed up.

And we also have a turtle outfit for him. We’ll see if the turtle outfit makes it. I think he’s kind of attached to the Mickey Mouse now that we got him in it.

[Erica]
Yeah, well, it’s costume day at school at his pre-K. And he’s been wearing it all day. So I would be shocked if we get that back off of him.

[Mattias]
Yeah, I was surprised when we got it for him that he chose the cow outfit at one point instead of Mickey Mouse since Mickey Mouse is his favorite thing. But anyway, we’re looking forward to walking around our neighborhood and not being cold this year. And maybe should we bring the speaker along again?

Yeah, yeah. Play some fun music. We get the soundboard out and have things like- A little heiress tour.

Hype tour, hype horn. Yeah, I know Halloween is fun. I know there’s a lot of concern with parents and candy around this time.

I was they did a trunker, trunk, trunk-a-ween, was it? Trunk-a-ween. Trunk-a-treat.

[Erica]
Trunk-a-treat.

[Mattias]
Is that what it is?

[Erica]
It’s not trunk-a-ween.

[Mattias]
All right, we’ll edit that part out. Not. Yeah, we had one of those yesterday and we got a lot of candy and then I had bedtime.

You have bedtime tonight. I had bedtime yesterday and I was like, oh my gosh, we’re just starting. We’re gonna have so much candy and there are gonna be high emotions.

That’s what usually happens. High emotions, a lot of fighting with each other.

[Erica]
I think honestly, I think it impacts our oldest the most. Her body shows a visible change after sugar.

[Mattias]
Really does.

[Erica]
Because sometimes I think it makes it worse if we call it out and we’re like, oh, you’ve had sugar. Who gave you sugar?

[Mattias]
Looking at you. Yeah, sorry. I’m not the trained therapist, if you haven’t noticed.

[Erica]
But I do think, even without anybody saying that, I think she does show spastic energy that comes out after she has candy. The younger two, I really don’t see much of a difference.

[Mattias]
We were maybe just tired, but there was some whininess, some big emotions coming forth. But I think that you have always been a proponent for, especially on Halloween, that the kids can kind of just listen to their bodies and eat as much as they want. Is that true?

[Erica]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve thought about it as in, all right, look, as a parent, I get to decide, well, okay, we, but really I, I guess, get to decide how many events or opportunities to get candy that they’re exposed to. Because there are, I mean, if we wanted to, we could go to 10 trunk retreats plus Halloween and they get candy at school.

They got candy from family last night. And so there’s, there’s just so many opportunities. So we get to control how many of those they’re exposed to.

So we chose one trunk retreat and then Halloween tonight. And then beyond that, we’ve talked about making sure that they have a really good dinner and that they drink some water so they’re not just eating candy on an empty stomach. And then once, once they have done those two things, then tonight, you know, I’m not going to comment on how much candy they’re eating.

I’m not going to regulate it. I’m not going to comment like, oh, you’ve already had three. All I tell them is if your belly is hurting, you’ve had too much.

It’s your body telling you that it’s time, way past time to stop. And so you want to stop before your belly hurts. Trying to help them be more in tune with how their body’s feeling.

[Mattias]
And I remember the times where like, I think, I think Ayla was kind of like, I think my body wants another one. Yeah. But, but yeah, it’s starting them.

Yeah. Like even if they have no idea and they just want more candy, it’s starting to them to think that way.

[Erica]
Yeah. Yeah. And last night, actually, um, our oldest only had two pieces and it was the same.

I just, I said, you know, after dinner and after you have water, you can, your candies up, you know, candy is yours. And she had two pieces. She said she wanted to save the rest of it for tonight.

So we’ll see what happens tonight. But, um, and then, you know, after tonight, the candy’s not just on the counter either. We’re going to put it away out of sight.

And then once we decide to bring it back out again, it’s going to be the same thing. Just, here’s the candy, enjoy it. But it’s not, you know, it’s not going to be like laying out around the house all the time either.

[Mattias]
I think it, I, it, I can see how it is, I think probably counterintuitive to a lot of people, uh, to, to kind of give free reign because we also understand the horrors of sugar to children. Um, but, but yeah, and, and, and, and, you know, they have eaten too much candy. It’s not like that.

We’ve done this and they, you know, have perfectly regulated themselves. Right. I mean, they have eaten too much.

[Erica]
Oh no, it’s been a huge learning curve. When we first started it, they would eat until their bellies hurt and then they would go to, go to bed complaining about it. And, but I mean, it was a nice opportunity to talk about, well, that’s your body telling you that it’s too full and it has too much of one thing and you have to make sure you give it time and space and you feed yourself with other food.

[Mattias]
And so like, it’s a bigger picture thing, right? It’s the learning how to be in tune with your body. Um, yeah.

So I think it’s a, it’s really cool. I can’t say that I have any part in this wisdom and I don’t think I would have come up with that on my own, but I do really appreciate you doing that with them and how I can get, you know, the, the, see the results in the future for them on that.

[Erica]
Yeah. I was thinking the other day about, uh, like us modeling that for them too, because I want them to be able to see me eating dessert and not always think that I’m eating salad. Cause that’s not the case.

I do like salad, but I don’t always eat it.

[Mattias]
But I, um, so there are two times a year you have dessert.

[Erica]
I, I used to be like a super sweets person and I really liked it. But in recent years, I, I don’t a whole lot. There’s not a lot of sweets that make me feel good.

Um, and, but an ice cream is one of those things that doesn’t always make me feel great. But I took Isla to the jump park this week and we got ice cream afterwards. I was like, I don’t want to be, I don’t want her to grow up thinking like my mom got me ice cream, but my mom never ate ice cream.

And so then, you know, that’s not okay for me to do as an adult or something.

[Mattias]
Right.

[Erica]
So I ended up getting ice cream and I paid for it later. So in some ways I’m modeling like what I’m teaching in some ways I’m not.

[Mattias]
Yeah. And I’m joking about the two times a year you eating desserts if that’s not obvious. But, um, yeah, yeah.

I think they definitely get a better, uh, role model with their, their food relationships with you than they do with me. Although I’m getting better, getting better.

[Erica]
Yeah. Well, I mean, what, what would you have done if, you know, if I wasn’t around with candy? Yeah.

With the Halloween candy.

[Mattias]
Uh, uh, pretended Halloween was, uh, for devil worshipers. They’re not allowed to have any candy go. You are not allowed to have, I don’t, I don’t know.

I don’t really know what I would do. I might’ve limited it, um, say they could have this many pieces been a little bit more generous on Halloween that I could see that being a logical thought. Um, but yeah, there were probably been more of the, oh gosh, they’re nightmares on candy, uh, in my head then, um, really focusing on their relationship with food and, and how, you know, they can have a relationship with candy and, and things that are junk food, you know, um, and not be unhealthy about it.

They can have that on occasion and it’s a good learning experience. I, yeah, I just don’t think I would’ve really had the tools and the wherewithal to think through all that.

[Erica]
Yeah. Well, you know, I wouldn’t have either growing up, but that’s why you marry up folks. I will say, um, I guess the caveat to this is our three kids are not on any dietary restrictions and they’re for the most part pretty healthy.

And so there isn’t a medical reason for us to restrict the candy, which if that’s the case, and we do have friends, um, and with their family where this would not be helpful because their kids have different needs.

[Mattias]
Yeah, no, that’s a good point. It’s a good point. Um, so to pivot, the other thing that’s happening right now is the election.

Did you want to get into that? Well, who are you voting for?

[Erica]
Only to say that sometimes themes come up, um, in the community and my work and the election anxiety is one of them. Um, and, and just, just that this feeling that something is happening next week, that’s big that nobody or anyone I’ve talked to really feels like they have any control over. Yeah.

And, and how, um, how difficult that can feel to deal with when you don’t feel like you can really do anything about it, but it’s coming regardless of how, you know, whoever becomes the next president.

[Mattias]
Yeah. Is that, is that also like a correlated with, uh, an intense, like focus on like the news and all the, you know, we’re getting bombarded, um, left and right about, you know, the, the, the, the process, the candidates and et cetera. Is that anything that’s like comes along with that?

Like, you know, we don’t have any control and it’s such a huge thing. That’s why I’m so anxious about it.

[Erica]
Well, I’ve, I guess I’ve seen the opposite. Actually. Most people have said, I recognize that the news pulls me in in a negative way and it makes the anxiety worse.

So I, and knowing that I’m not turning that on and I’m going to focus on more what I’m presently doing in my life and the things that I can enjoy and be grateful for and control, which is a really healthy response.

[Mattias]
Yeah, totally. Well, and I guess also, I think that, um, I think in, in, in my voting history, no matter which way it turns out, if it turned out the way I voted or it turned out not the way I voted, um, I think it kind of normalizes after, you know, even if you’re feeling like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe that person got elected. Um, it kind of normalizes after what a month.

[Erica]
Yeah. Where you, you adjust to it. It becomes less of a shock.

[Mattias]
Yeah. Like it’s just, you kind of go back to your day to day and maybe that’s a helpful reminder to, to, you know, and I’m not diminishing the importance of, um, focusing on the issues and active doing your active duty of voting, go vote. Um, but at the end of the day, like that’s all you have control over.

And if you realize that this too will pass and you’ll be back to kind of your day to day normal, um, and that everything around us is just kind of hyping up our, our, I mean, it is so geared to divide, um, us that it’s, it’s just making you. So it’s, it’s kind of like war where they like, they propaganda people into believing the, the people that we’re going to war against are the enemy and they’re so evil and they’re so horrible people, right? Like that’s kind of what they do.

And that’s, I feel like that’s what happens with our elections and it’s effective because people are most of the time voting against somebody not voting for somebody. And I think that’s, yeah, just a thing that we should recognize and realize how much yeah. Control we have over it, right?

[Erica]
Yeah. I had a friend of mine who attended a webinar about how to handle election anxiety, specifically with clients. And she said she left it having election anxiety.

It was not super effective.

[Mattias]
So yeah, practice on oneself.

[Erica]
Yeah. Yeah. So it’s just, you know, it’s a big week.

There’s a lot of sugar flying around this week and then a lot of stress flying around next week and it’s all going to be fine. We’re going to have like a buffer week after a buffer week or two. And then we get into the family crisis of Thanksgiving.

[Mattias]
This is your busy season.

[Erica]
It is. Do you hear, there’s a therapist recently that was joking that we can’t go on holiday from about now until January or February.

[Mattias]
Yeah, that makes sense. It’s like opposite of our hot seasons are kind of opposite.

[Erica]
Yeah. Family makes us crazy.

[Mattias]
And you don’t want to move when you’re dealing with that, I guess.

[Erica]
That’s probably true. You’re in crisis.

[Mattias]
Anyway.

[Erica]
You decide to move in the spring when you’re like, I gotta get out of here.

[Mattias]
Yeah. We got through it and almost leave. Never again.

Yeah. Well, let’s anyway, let’s get into our guest, James Shelby. James is coming out of California.

James is a top producing agent, team lead, and he has been in business for 11 years. He was great to talk to. Yeah, I guess I don’t really have anything more to say other than enjoy James Shelby.

Welcome back to the REI Agent. We are so pleased to have James Shelby here with us coming out of the California area, not San Diego, despite what your hat says. Close.

Yeah, but you are a big Padres fan, right? Is that correct?

[James Shelby]
Yeah. Unfortunately, it’s been a tough run, but keep the faith as we like to say.

[Mattias]
Yeah, that’s something that I have never… I don’t know the pain of. My father was a huge Phillies fan and has gone through the ringer with that many times.

I’ve never really got into sports until recently when we started doing fantasy football. She got me into fantasy football. I hadn’t really watched any sports.

And then now I’m just cheering for up and coming teams. And I don’t have a loyal one team that I follow, which I don’t know if it’s good or bad.

[Erica]
Well, you also have four fantasy teams, or you did last year.

[Mattias]
I did last year.

[Erica]
That’s a lot to manage.

[James Shelby]
It’s too much.

[Erica]
How far did the Padres make it?

[James Shelby]
So the Dodgers just won the World Series. We lost to the Dodgers the round before, I think. Wait, now I can’t even remember.

Yeah, so we made it in the wild card, beat them, beat the Braves. Then I put my phone on did not disturb and I’m just still getting calls. So I don’t know what’s going on.

The life of a realtor, right? Yeah, yeah. I can’t get away.

But yeah, I go back and forth with sports. So I was a big Cowboys fan, or I still am. But my entire life, big Cowboys fan.

Football was my first and only love for probably 30 years. And that was full of heartbreak. That hasn’t been much better.

They won a Super Bowl when I was like eight. And it’s been, you know, mediocrity since then. I think my philosophy on sports has changed through the years, especially since I really got more into business and personal development.

I’ve been an agent for 11 years. And, you know, I just have come to realize, like, I really do love sports. And I love watching games and going to games and following the teams.

But at the end of the day, you know, they don’t pay my bills. Quite the contrary. I help pay theirs.

And, you know, as much as I’m sure a lot of the players enjoy the fans and this and that, you know, they’re not losing sleep over, you know, over us. So my philosophy has changed a little bit. It’s more just enjoyment.

And, you know, I get heartbroken when my teams lose. But it lasts, you know, 24 hours and that’s it. Whereas before, maybe I was crushed for a week or two, you know.

[Erica]
Yeah.

[James Shelby]
There’s more important things in life. It’s more just entertainment to me at this point. And I see it now more for what it truly is, which is just a big business conglomerate, you know.

And so I think that’s probably changed through the years too. I think maybe 50 years ago, 60 years ago, it was more of a hometown thing. And, you know, where you grew up and there was a lot of, you know, the players stayed on the same team.

Their whole career. And it was a lot of that. Now it’s just a big business.

And, you know, you just kind of take it for what it is.

[Mattias]
I’m going to dance a dangerous line here and do a parallel here to politics. But I think maybe a bit of my opinion on why I am fine with my level of involvement with sports is because I really have no control over it, right? There’s, I can’t really make a difference in who wins.

And it’s kind of similar to politics. You can vote, but that’s about it. And at this time of the year, you see everybody like, you know, getting so riled up and like their whole world is like, you know, going to end if it doesn’t go the way they want it to.

And just, yeah, just kind of like a, you know, if I can focus on things I have control over in my life for the most part and really invest in those things and then, you know, do the things that you want to like, go watch the game, go vote, whatever. But it just, I feel like I’m going to be a happier person if I’m not like, you know, totally invested in it. Like, you know, spending weeks being, that’s not fun, right?

[James Shelby]
Yeah, no, I agree a hundred percent. You know, when it comes to politics, I think your local politics is probably a little more important than the big picture. You know, I think we found that out during COVID that, you know, if you lived in one state, they treated it this way.

If you lived in another state, they treated it this way. And then even if you just niche it down to counties, you know, I’m in California, but I live in Riverside County. Riverside County is a little bit more of a red county for California, which is kind of people don’t realize that a lot of California is very Republican, but it’s just you’ve got the big cities that are more Democrat.

So, you know, I’m outside in a suburb here. And, you know, our sheriff, for example, is, you know, sheriff of Riverside County is a Republican and he kind of governed things locally, how you would expect the Republican to do it. So I don’t know.

Politics is one of those things where I think I probably paid the most attention to it over the last four years than I have in my life. But I agree, you know, you can’t depend on any, you know, president to come and help you specifically. You know, there’s certain policies and things that might make your life a little better or worse.

But for the most part, you have to take your own responsibility and do the things that are going to improve your life, you know, for yourself.

[Mattias]
Yeah, and being informed and voting is good. I mean, I think you should be informed about who you’re voting for or whatever. But yeah, above and beyond that, you know, it’s, yeah, what kind of focus on what you have control on has kind of been my mantra.

But speaking of which, we both had a pretty hard week or we’ve had some, we talked a little bit previous about how we both have just had a lot of things happen that maybe one of them wouldn’t have really, you know, gotten us down, but we’ve had a few things stack upon each other. And I think it’s kind of, could be kind of an interesting conversation about kind of how you deal with it and how do you get through those times and what keeps you going.

[Erica]
I would really like to hear this from you too, James, because then I can tell you what it’s been like for me as his wife this week. He’s gone through a really hard week.

[Mattias]
I might need to leave.

[Erica]
Yeah, I’d like to hear how you both have kind of weathered that.

[James Shelby]
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. It’s a good question. I think, you know, yeah, we were talking before we started recording about some of the things that have come up in some transactions that I’ve had to deal with that are out of my control, you know, things that, you know, if I drop the ball on something, I can say, hey, I screwed up, you know, let me fix this.

But when someone else drops the ball, you know, you can yell at them and you can do this. But ultimately, it’s just about fixing the problem, finding the solution, you know. You know, from the mental side of things, I don’t know.

I’ve found that through the years, I’ve gotten a little bit better at handling the stress of this business than maybe I did initially over the first five years, six years. But I would consider myself like an amiable personality. So I tend to really take things to heart and think that everyone hates me, you know, if something goes wrong.

And I think a lot just has to do with the personality type that you are too, because I’ve had colleagues that I’ve kind of, you know, our business has been on the same trajectories, and we both kind of got started at the same time. And he’s a little more of a driver, you know, and kind of lets things kind of, you know, roll off his back, so to speak. And not to say he doesn’t get stressed out, but I think sometimes dependent on the type of personality that you are, you might stress out more than other people.

And, you know, coping with that, how do I deal with it? You know, I think, you know, all the normal cliche stuff that you hear, you know, making sure that I get out and exercise and I get out and I do stuff away from the business, making sure that, you know, just making sure I do everything I can, all the checks and balances to avoid issues, you know, and every time I’ve come up across a problem throughout a transaction, I say, okay, how can we make sure this doesn’t happen again?

And I think the more of those checks and balances and things you have in place, the less likely you’re going to run into issues down the road. And, you know, I think the other solution to, I think a big reason why agents stress about a deal falling through or something going sideways is because that’s the only deal they have. So a big part of alleviating my stress has been just stay really busy.

If you have eight, nine escrows, one falling out, it sucks because you have to deal with it and you have to deal with the client and you have to help them. But it’s a lot less of an issue than when you have one deal and it’s the only deal and it’s falling apart, you know? So staying busy solves a lot of problems, you know?

[Erica]
Are you an internal processor? Do you find it’s helpful to like chat with somebody about what’s going on to help get your thoughts straight?

[James Shelby]
That’s a good question. I don’t, I would have to stop and really think about that. I do think sometimes it does help me to dump some, you know, for lack of a better word, dump some things onto people sometimes.

Like I just did that with my assistant right now. I just said, what the hell is going on in the world right now to where this many people have dropped the ball in the last 48 hours? And she already knew the problem.

She already knew everything, but it felt good for me to just kind of dump it on her. And I wasn’t yelling at her. I was just saying, what’s going on?

And she agrees because she sees it too. And I said, is it just me? But yeah, I think it definitely helps to talk to people and talk it out.

But I think it’s important to talk to the right people too, because you can be having a bad day, give some of that bad news or bad information to someone you’re hoping to get some good feedback back and they tell you, well, hey, maybe you should quit the business or they just make it worse sometimes.

[Mattias]
Yeah. They’re just more negative or something. And they just, yeah.

[James Shelby]
So I don’t know. I think it’s good to talk it out, but with the right people.

[Erica]
Yeah. Yeah. That’s probably fair.

I was curious what your response was to that.

[Mattias]
She’s teeing it up because obviously she’s like, yeah, he’s an external processor.

[Erica]
Well, yes. Yes. We can say that for sure you are.

I can give my own perspective on that too.

[Mattias]
Well, it’s interesting that for me, it can be hard for us. So you have kids, right?

[James Shelby]
Yes, sir.

[Mattias]
What ages are they?

[James Shelby]
So I have a soon to be 13-year-old and then I have a 20-year-old.

[Mattias]
Okay. Yeah. Ours are young.

And so for me, it can be extra hard when I’m needing to process something and we have no time to talk to each other other than when dinner’s out and it’s like the three little kids are screaming or interrupting or demanding time and stuff, which can’t fault them for needing intention and everything like that too. But it’s just when I’m needing to de-stress, talk about these things, whatever, there’s no space for it. It just kind of makes an extra layer of difficulty.

Absolutely.

[James Shelby]
Yeah, absolutely. You got to have someone that you can talk to, bounce ideas off of, vent to, all the above, strategize with.

[Mattias]
I’ve got a couple of friends in the business. I think that’s also helpful. I think if you’re not in the business, it’s hard to really get what’s happening.

And so that, you know what I mean? I mean, you do, but I couldn’t talk to other people as much about it. And so anyway, I think it’s good to have that person that will uplift you too, that will talk you through it.

And there was one particular time I can remember that I was really down. I think this was the first time I got really busy early in my career. And I just had a shlew of problems and I was just down.

And my buddy just gave this big pep talk. He’s like, hey, if you’re not having problems, you’re not busy, man, come on. Yeah, it’s true.

Let’s go.

[James Shelby]
And that’s a good type of pep talk, right, that you want to hear from people that you can trust and that you know have been through it as well. No, for sure.

[Erica]
Yeah. So with that, how did you choose your team? I know you had mentioned you have a small team.

How did you put that together?

[James Shelby]
Well, how can I put this? As I mentioned, I’ve been in real estate for 11 years. And it was very in vogue the first probably five or six years, at least where I was.

But it felt like the entire industry to have a big team and that having a big team would lead to more transactions, which would lead to more money. And so I’m giving you a long roundabout answer to your question. So I apologize.

[Mattias]
Sitting here at the edge of my seat.

[James Shelby]
But I, thankfully, very early on was mentored and coached with someone who basically told me like, look, you only need a team when you get to the point where you have so much business, you can’t handle it on your own. So don’t try to build a team so that you can do a lot of transactions. Start building a team once you have reached your capacity.

Because to have a team, you need leads to give the team, you need admin, you need, you know, you’re gonna have to spend money on marketing to feed the team. And, you know, ultimately, you’re probably going to make more money if you just did less transactions on your own. So I took that advice very early.

And I only really started to grow a team once I reached the amount of transactions where it’s just like, okay, I can’t physically or mentally handle anymore. I’m making a lot of money. But now I’ve kind of reached this capping point where customer service is starting to lack a little just because, again, I can only do so much.

So I kind of chose my team based more out of necessity than like a want to grow this big team. So I don’t have a big team. I only have two agents.

The current agents that I have, they both reached out to me and said, hey, you know, I’m looking to be on a team. And it looks like, you know, you do a lot of deals. I had two other team members that kind of just ran their course as sometimes team members do.

Like, you know, they build up, build up, and then they end up doing so many transactions that they want to go do their own thing, which is totally fine. So yeah, to answer your question, I really just picked these team members because they reached out to me and kind of fit the description of someone I thought, okay, I can help them grow. They can help me, you know, buy back some of my time.

They’re trustworthy. They are, you know, somewhat of a go-getter, you know. So that’s kind of how that evolved.

[Erica]
Yeah, that’s cool. I wanted to ask you, let me see if I can phrase this the way I want to. A lot of, so I’m pulling this information because I read like 34 reviews people had written about you.

And there are some like pretty significant themes that pulled out of those reviews, and I’m really curious about them. Because one of the big ones was they, multiple people described feeling protected in the transaction with working with you, and they felt like you were very responsive and very professional and on top of it. But that word, feeling protected, I was really curious about.

Because I think that’s such an important thing for people, especially when they’re moving in from outside of the area, to feel like somebody is looking out for their best interest, that they can trust them, and that they can feel like safe and secure in the transactional process. Which like, for I, as a therapist, I operate out of like an attachment lens. So I’m drawing a little bit of a bridge here.

But I just thought that was really interesting. Because that’s like, as parents, you know, that’s what we try and do for our kids is help them feel protected so they can make a change and a jump and try new things without feeling too much anxiety. And it sounds like from these, what these people have written about you is that’s what you do for them.

And I didn’t, have you heard that? Have you picked up on that?

[James Shelby]
You know, I have here and there, you know, and, you know, that’s very, a very thoughtful thing. I don’t think anyone I’ve done quite a few podcasts, I don’t think anyone’s gone through and read the reviews. So I can appreciate that a lot.

And, you know, I think where that might come from is most of the time, not always, but a lot of the time in real estate, it seems like the agent is mainly concerned about getting paid, you know. And while I can understand and appreciate that, because this is how we make a living and feed our families, the client really can tell if that’s the agent’s main objective throughout the transaction, as opposed to the agent’s main objection being protecting them, making sure that, you know, they’re aware of where they’re at in the process, and then ultimately helping them get to the finish line. And, you know, I think, again, going back to making sure you have enough transactions to where you as an agent don’t feel like I need this paycheck, you know.

And I think, you know, sometimes people might say, well, I kind of want to work with an agent that maybe doesn’t do a whole ton of business because I want their main focus to be on me and this and that. And, you know, that’s somewhat understandable. But if you’re working with an agent that does a lot of business, that means they probably aren’t desperate for a paycheck.

And I’ve been lucky enough or whatever you want to call it, I’ve worked hard enough to be busy most of the time. And so I don’t ever feel like I have to get this done because I need to get paid, you know, because I know I’m going to get paid. I’ve got plenty of transactions going on, you know, most of them, knock on wood, are going to go through.

I don’t need to push this one through to get paid, you know. So I think that really comes through throughout the transaction. And I’ve told clients, you know, hey, I don’t think you should move forward on this deal or, you know, I’ve sat with clients at a listing appointment.

And if I really don’t feel like it’s in their best interest for them to sell the property, I might tell them that or I will tell them that. And then ultimately, it’s up to them. So I think just being able to convey to the client that, hey, I’m OK if you don’t feel comfortable moving forward with this for X, Y and Z reason.

Now, if it’s just maybe a cold feed or something and you can help work through it or there’s a hurdle that we can all get through together and everyone’s going to be happy at the end, then yeah, obviously it’s our job to move it forward. But if it’s a bad deal, you know, it’s a bad home, it’s a bad whatever, it’s our fiduciary duty to tell them, hey, you know, let’s try something else. Let’s try a different property or whatever.

So I think that probably comes through and maybe why people have said, hey, I feel protected or, you know, whatever the case may be. And, you know, it makes me happy to hear that for sure.

[Mattias]
Yeah, I’ve been thinking about it. You said it a couple of times and I completely agree with you. There is a luxury of being busy enough to not really be stressed about the next paycheck or whatever or that deal going through.

And I think that one thing that somebody who may not be in that position yet could do is to really focus in on the processes that go through, like, you know, to find new prospects, to manage what you do have properly and to really focus on those things and not what paychecks might be coming. And I never really had the like, I think I’ve seen some software that would have like the deal flow kind of thing where you can kind of see what commission is coming down the line, that kind of thing. I just, I, you know, I try, I usually have to enter into the commission to my brokerage, you know, that kind of stuff.

So I am aware of it, but like, it’s not something that I really spend much time thinking about, you know, I can’t wait till this closes next week because I’m going to buy this or whatever. I just don’t really try to think about that at all. And I think if you aren’t in that luxury position, the more you can just focus on doing the right things, doing the processes that will get you the business that you don’t have to worry about, you know, the commission checks anymore, the better off you’ll be.

Fake it till you make it. Kind of, right? Yeah.

[James Shelby]
Well, I had, you know, going back to the mentor coach that I had early in my career, he, his advice was start every day at zero. So that would mean zero money in your bank account, zero escrows, you know, zero commission checks coming down the pipeline and zero leads in your, in your database. That’s the mentality.

He said, you need to start with every day in this business. And it’s true, you know, because I’ve found and what creeps in into new agents sometimes, but I think even seasoned agents is two things that really railroad people is complacency. You know, if you’ve done really well and you’ve got some money in the bank and you kind of built this database and clients just kind of call you and, you know, you get complacent, right?

Because you’re just like, hey, I’m good. Right. And then there’s apathy, you know, you just kind of get apathetic towards the business because it’s stressful and it’s, you know, it’s a grind and I’ve always got to find new clients.

And, you know, I think both of those things, one or the other can creep in or sometimes both, you know, you can have a lot of money in the bank and have closed a lot of deals over the last five, six years and you’re doing good. And maybe you also are apathetic towards the industry a little bit. And, you know, I think that’s where you can kind of, you can be on this good trajectory.

But if one of those things creeps in or both of them, you know, you’ll start to level off or even sink back down. And I think that’s a dangerous place to be at with your business. And I found myself with that, you know, if I’m being honest, I’ve had to take a look at myself over the last three months and just say, okay, you know, where are we at here and what are we doing and how are we going to grow?

Because right now, you know, we’re kind of coasting a little bit, you know, and I’m happy to be in a position where I can coast, but, you know, what’s next? You know, how can we go to the next level? And I have to ask myself that now.

[Mattias]
Yeah. I was going to say that I’ve heard people describe it as your business is either growing or it’s dying. And I think that that wasn’t necessarily specific to real estate, but I think it’s true.

And I think there’s a lot of people out there right now that are, you know, seeking some kind of solution to that feeling. I think there’s a lot of people that, you know, it could be the lawsuit. It could be the shift of the market.

It could be a lot of those things. But I think there’s people switching brokerages, people that are starting new brokerages. There’s a lot of transition happening.

And seeking, I think, a way to maybe reinvent themselves or to be better here. I don’t know. So it can be a struggle.

I mean, I think it can really be a struggle to keep that mentality positive, to really focus on the basics and do what works, right?

[Erica]
Okay, so how do you both stay motivated? Essentially, you kind of have to keep yourself with a little bit of fire under you the whole time. And it can be a really isolating business if you don’t have a team or if you don’t have a super supportive brokerage behind you or a community.

So how do you guys stay motivated then?

[James Shelby]
Well, I mean, I don’t know if it was a Tony Robbins thing or what. But I think that’s where I heard it, where humans are motivated by their pleasure or pain. So depending on the type of person that you are, you’re either going to be motivated by the pleasure of making a lot of money and being able to buy the things you want.

And that’s what really keeps you going. Or you’re going to be motivated by the pain of looking at your bank account and knowing if I don’t close another deal in the next three months, I’m not going to be able to pay my bills. But going back to the kind of complacency thing, for me, staying motivated since I have done pretty well is just constantly raising the bar on my goals.

Because if your goal is to sell a home a month, once you reach that, if you don’t have a to the next two a month, you’re probably going to stay wherever you kind of have your goals, right? So I think if you’ve done well, you have to just keep kind of upping the bar, so to speak, to keep motivating yourself. You look at someone like Tom Brady or whatever, they win one Super Bowl, most quarterbacks never even get to that point.

And sometimes they might say, hey, that’s good enough. But then you’ve got these ultra, ultra competitors that say, I need another one, I need another one, I need another one. And so I don’t know if there’s some sort of trick on how to stay motivated.

Everyone’s different. But I think at least having your clear, concise goals of knowing exactly what you want to accomplish should at least be a good starting point.

[Mattias]
Well, I was going to say too that I think some people don’t necessarily want to continue to grow. And I think that at a certain point, and that’s fine. I think there’s people that kind of have like a threshold, what they want to sell a year, and they’re good with it.

And they have other things that they are very motivated by that they enjoy outside of the business. I think that’s fine too. I think it really boils down to some intentionality of how you want to live your life, what you want out of life, and setting goals too.

If you have a North Star, if you have this guiding thing that guides everything you do, that’s going to help you be motivated. So if you want to, I don’t know, you want to buy a bigger house in three years or something like that, you can kind of keep that in the forefront and that can motivate you if you break it down. I need to sell this many houses a year, this many houses a month, which means I need to contact my sphere.

I need to do 10 contacts a day or whatever. That can also kind of help keep you going, I think. It’s not something I necessarily, that’s the right answer maybe.

It’s not something I’ve always been perfect at. For me, I’ve definitely also gotten excited about new systems and things like that that I can play with and experiment with. That’s kind of kept me going.

[Erica]
Yeah, that seems like a very natural thing. You kind of get tired of the everyday things that you’ve done the same way over and over and you need something different, which is kind of fun in it probably too. It’s finding a different way to market or a different strategy, how to reach people or a different way to pitch to sellers.

[James Shelby]
Yeah, well, you brought up a couple things there that I noticed that were good points. I’ll start with kind of what you had just said, that coming up with new ways to do things can sometimes be exciting. I remember initially when I first got into the business, for the most part, all of my business was coming from door knocking and cold calling and that was like a grind and it worked and it worked well.

But a couple years in, maybe four years or so, I really started kind of getting into the social media heavily and marketing a lot on there. That was kind of fun and it didn’t feel like this grind. It was a way to kind of…

I was doing all the stuff that a lot of agents do now, but I was doing it a while ago, like local interviews with business owners and restaurants and all that stuff that’s really become popular over the last couple of years. I was doing that a long time ago and it was fun and it was a way to talk to people outside of just cold calling and stuff. So I agree with you 100%.

If you can interject something into your business that’s going to help your business grow but also is a lot of fun for you, I think that’s important and it’ll give you some more energy. And then you had mentioned, sometimes people, agents or just people in general that are maybe business owners will reach a level in their business where they say, I’m okay where I’m at. And I think that’s fine as well.

Just because you hit 50 deals doesn’t mean now you have to do 100 if that’s not really what you personally want in your life. And I think if you’re the type of person that’s motivated by up in the bar all the time, then that will help you. But if maybe your motivation is finding a way to get your time back, then maybe you are going to be motivated by, hey, I need to do a certain amount of deals each year where I can buy.

[Mattias]
Well, let’s pause this here. And we’re back after a brief technical difficulty. Sorry about that.

[James Shelby]
You’re good. You’re good. So yeah, I think if you’re motivated by trying to get your time back, maybe your motivation is going to be doing enough deals per year to where you can buy one rental property per year, right?

And then you say, hey, once I reach X amount of passive income, then I’m going to scale back on my real estate business and maybe I’m going to focus on doing something else. So to your point earlier, everyone’s kind of motivated by different things. And I don’t necessarily think everyone has to have the same goals because everyone is different.

I’ve even, you know, we talked about the issues and the stresses of this business. And I definitely think you got to be a little bit crazy to be in a business where or be an entrepreneur because 100% of your income is based off of what you do and your production and how hard you work as opposed to, you know, showing up to a nine to five and you know, okay, every week I’m going to make this much money and it’s kind of a little more comfortable and quote unquote safe. So I do think you have to be a little bit of a crazy person to just be okay with not knowing where the next checks are coming from, you know?

And I tell like people all the time, there’s nothing wrong with having a nine to five and just kind of living, for lack of a better word, a mediocre kind of life. I don’t mean that as like a negative, but just kind of an average, maybe average is a better word. I think there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

And in fact, I think it works better for a lot of people than trying to be an entrepreneur. But the only caveat I always say is you have to be happy with it or have to be okay with the fact that, hey, this is just like, I’m not going to be a millionaire. I’m not going to, you know, own a bunch of properties or I’m not going to drive a super nice car, but I’m happy.

And if that’s okay and you’re happy with that, then I think that that’s better than the entrepreneur that has millions of dollars and is miserable, to be honest. So, you know.

[Mattias]
Yeah, it’s all about getting out of life what you want. And for me, like the big thing that is motivating for me is like just kind of freedom. Like, I mean, we started this podcast and it would have been next to impossible with a nine to five, right?

I mean, we both, she’s self-employed, she has her own practice. And so we are able to carve out time to do this and it’s a lot of fun, but it would just time-wise and it would just not really make sense otherwise. So it’s just cool to be able to do kind of what you want with your time and that’s one of the big things for me anyway.

[Erica]
That’s true. I’m just going to throw out or add in the perspective of like the partner too, because I don’t talk about that as much. But because as you are kind of trying to figure out where you want your business to be and as it changes and it ebbs and flows and grows and sometimes are more stressful than others, you and I, I think, have become really good at this and it’s taken us a while to get there.

But I feel like we do a good job of, you know, like I say, if business is really busy or if you have a lot on your plate, like this week would probably be a good example, then I compensate for that by pulling more weight with like the kids or with everything else in life or anything that’s being scheduled and you kind of jump in where you can. But I think it takes a lot of probably communication and awareness just as a family, as a whole, to figure out how much you’re able to be a part of the family piece of it when work is really busy and then when things are feeling more manageable and then we recalibrate again. But that seems to be like a living, breathing organism that is always changing.

[Mattias]
That’s very true.

[Erica]
And so, it can be really stressful and really hard if you’re not communicating about it well, which we’ve also done in the past. But I feel like we’ve done a lot of work on that too where I think it works much, much better now.

[Mattias]
Well, and to that point, I think when you’re dealing with a lot, having to communicate a lot to figure out problems to, you know, get, you know, just even just communicating for the day-to-day stuff, it can be hard. And then you throw in noisy kids on top of it. It’s just like, you know what, I want you to read my mind.

Not now.

[James Shelby]
Yeah, it’s tough. You know, when you have kids and a spouse, you know, I’ve been married for 14 years and I have kids that, you know, like I said, I have a – I don’t know if this is pre-recording or post, but I have a 20-year-old daughter and a 13-year-old daughter. And so, you know, you do the math there.

You know, I had a kid very young with my previous wife. And then, you know, so just a lot of family dynamics, right? And then you add in the stresses of business on top of it all, you know, and thankfully, my wife is awesome and has been there to kind of help navigate through the whole thing.

And, you know, when we first got married, I wasn’t even in real estate. I was doing auto glass and I wasn’t really making much money. And I wasn’t really – I didn’t have a plan, you know, necessarily other than living paycheck to paycheck.

And, you know, thankfully, she was very, you know, supportive and on board. I don’t think she fully grasped when we were young, you know, and she was even a little younger than I was. And, you know, you kind of just, you know, I’m almost 40 now.

And when I look back at, like, your 25-year-old self, you know, I will speak for myself. I was kind of just an idiot, you know, so, you know, and maybe not a full-on idiot, but definitely just you don’t know much. You don’t know what the economy is or how it works.

And I mean, I don’t fully grasp it now. But, you know, you’re kind of just going to work, coming home and kind of partying on the weekend. And that’s about it.

And to my wife’s credit, you know, when I said, hey, I’m going to get into real estate, I’m going to do this. And then I was working seven days a week, probably for a year straight, it felt like, because I would go to work at my auto glass job. And then I would come home, take a shower, put on a suit, and I would go door knock, you know, for an hour, two hours a day.

And it was like that for a while, you know. And then when I did finally started getting clients and stuff, that occupied a lot of my spare time. And, you know, eventually it got to the point where I was able to transition into real estate full time.

But the entire process, she had to kind of be on board with it, you know, and be okay with it and kind of pick up where I couldn’t, you know, be there to maybe do some of the things that she might have needed my help with at the time. And I, you know, but she kind of saw the vision, I think, or at least, you know, when you get your first couple commission checks, I think the spouse can at least see there was some fruits of the labor and say, okay, I see kind of where this could go. And so I gotta give her a lot of credit for, you know, being on board with it.

[Erica]
Yeah, that’s huge. And I imagine, you know, if it had gone a different way, that would have been an exponential amount of stress for you trying to get it started and also feeling like you need to perform and bring home some money too for home.

[James Shelby]
Yeah, yeah, I think you’re right. You know, if it didn’t work out, you know, it would have been a lot of time and effort that maybe would have felt wasted. But, you know, I think I just wouldn’t let it not work, I guess.

I just, you know, it wasn’t an option. I knew that what I was doing at the time wasn’t going to give me the life that I really wanted for myself or for my family. You know, I think sometimes people don’t understand how much true effort and work it’s going to take to make it out in real estate, you know, and I think that’s why there’s such a high failure rate.

You know, I was lucky. I found a podcast and things like that very early on. You know, I think when I started studying for my test and all that I was, like I said, doing auto glass, but podcasts were kind of this new thing.

And this was 2010, probably. And there was like a handful, I’d say like two or three real estate podcasts that I would listen to at the time. And I learned a lot through those podcasts of what I needed to do.

Now, granted, it was like information overload, but I was able to kind of handpick a couple things and say, okay, I’m going to do this and this. Because they were interviewing top producers, you know, just like kind of what you guys are doing. And I learned a lot just listening to those while I was doing my other job.

And then I would implement what I learned, you know, at night and on the weekends. And, you know, it all kind of worked out eventually. And I got a coach too, which was a big step that I was afraid to take, but I’m glad I did.

[Mattias]
Yeah, I think that’s a tough one for a lot of people. I haven’t done one. I’ve had some awesome mentors along the way.

But I think that’s definitely something that I would never say is a bad idea. I mean, I think it sounds like if you need to get yourself into like a path of being intentional and doing the right thing and having accountability, that’s huge. I’m currently in a mastermind, which probably serves a similar type of role where we have accountability, et cetera, that we share every week.

But yeah, so I think that’s a huge way of getting started. Along the way, when you were getting started, were there any books that were really huge to you getting started? Or are there any current books that you think are really good that you would suggest people to read?

It doesn’t have to be necessarily real estate related, but anything that come to mind?

[James Shelby]
Yeah, there’s been several books through the years. You know, a lot of them are the cliche or the norm, you know, how to win friends and influence people. Those books, you know, if you haven’t read them, read them, you know, because I think they’re important, especially in a sales business.

But one that I really like that I’ve read and listened to several times because it’s super short, it’s very digestible. And I think it’s applicable to just anyone that wants to make some money and have a good life for themselves, not just in real estate, but you know, just overall was, I think it’s called The Millionaire Booklet, I believe. And it’s by Grant Cardone.

And it’s, I don’t think it’s more than maybe 30 pages or something. It’s very short, very easily digestible. But that’s what I think is so, I don’t want to say brilliant, but what is really good about the book is that it’s short, it’s to the point, it’s simple.

And I think it really can help shift your mindset for people that maybe have a negative mindset about money or people with money or, you know, I know when I was growing up, my parents were like, you know, middle class. They didn’t have like a ton of money, but they weren’t like dirt poor. You know, we maybe would go on vacation every few years type of thing.

And but the mindset with money, it was always kind of like, you know, rich people that have a lot of money that they either got there from like inheriting it or they got there by kind of screwing people over. You know, there was no real clear path to getting rich that wasn’t either just luck or, you know, something nefarious that you were kind of screwing people. So I always had it in my mind that like, oh, well, then I’m probably not gonna get there because I’m not gonna get money from anyone in my family and I’m not gonna go out and screw people over.

But, you know, once I realized that, oh, no, you know, if you just provide a service that a lot of people need, and you can do it for a lot of people at a high level, you can make a lot of money. So this book, I think would be something that if you haven’t had a chance to read it, or at least just listen to it on audio, and I think you can get a free version of it. It’s pretty, pretty great.

[Mattias]
Trenton Larkin Cool. No, I haven’t heard of that one either. So that’s great.

How to Win Friends and Influence People is one that I have wanted to gift people anonymously. You need this. It’s in your mailbox.

[James Shelby]
I think it’s a good general overall book. And I think for anyone that maybe had like a rough childhood or things that they’re getting over, or can’t get over, I think Awaken the Giant Within by Tony Robbins is a really good book as well, in my opinion. Trenton Larkin Very cool.

Thank you.

[Mattias]
Yeah.

[James Shelby]
My pleasure. Thank you.

[Mattias]
And if people wanted to reach out to you at all, or follow you anywhere, what platforms are you on?

[James Shelby]
You can pretty much find me anywhere. I think primarily Instagram is probably the best place to find me. If you just search James Shelby, you’ll probably find me.

It’s James underscore Shelby, if you want to really get specific. And then if you search on YouTube, you’ll find me. Facebook, TikTok, I’m kind of everywhere.

Threads. Threads has been my new favorite. I jump on X and kind of read news stuff, but I don’t really post there.

But I do like Threads. Recently, it’s kind of had the – I know it launched and then everyone was kind of not into it, but I think it’s had a little bit of a resurgence and it seems to be a cool place to connect. And I think it’s one of those platforms right now where people should jump on it because I think it is going to get some legs underneath of it and grow, but it’s relatively simple to get engagement on it right now because they’re kind of trying to get it going.

Yeah, so I think we’ll see. We’ll see what happens.

[Mattias]
Okay, cool. Well, thanks so much for being on. James, it’s been a lot of fun.

Thanks for having me.

[Erica]
Yeah, thank you so, so much.

[James Shelby]
Absolutely.

[Erica]
Thanks for listening to the REI Agent.

[Mattias]
If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week.

[Erica]
Visit REIAgent.com for more content.

[Mattias]
Until next time, keep building the life you want.

[Erica]
All content in this show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.