From Accidental Landlord to Real Estate Powerhouse (The Unstoppable Rise of Terrie Schauer)

Transcript

[Mattias]
Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Matthias, an agent and investor.

[Erica]
And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist.

[Mattias]
Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing.

[Erica]
Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors.

[Mattias]
Ready to level up?

[Erica]
Let’s do it.

[Mattias]
Welcome back to the REI Agent. I am here alone, which means I cannot be stopped. I will be able to go on my rants.

I will be able to speak from the heart and not have any eye rolling from my lovely co-host. I was really fired up a few episodes back when I was going on a rant. And I think I said like getting it.

And I was talking about, just how I feel like I’m really living a really good life right now because I’m out there working hard in different aspects of my life. And I listened to it again at the intro and I told her, oh, that was a really good intro. And she’s like, yeah, you just kind of rambled.

Well, guys, you’re in for it again. I’m gonna ramble and no one’s gonna stop me. But no, anyway, I made a post today, the day of recording this anyway, about a life hack of that.

And it was, you know, join Colts that are good for you. And I wanted to talk a little bit about that and get into kind of that theme that I’ve had for the past year or so. I am in CrossFit, that’s what I was referring to.

I fully believe that it’s one of the best ways to get in good shape. And that part of that is because it is such a motivating community to be a part of. And that you wanna really do well.

And you wanna really get better. For me, it’s partly to be better than other people. Like there’s a competition aspect of it, for sure.

I’m not gonna lie about that. But more so, it’s learning a new skill, getting better at a new thing. Like getting a new PR for a squat or a snatch.

Or being able to learn a muscle-up for the first time. Or be able to get double-unders with a jump rope. Or all, there’s just so many elements to CrossFit that you can kind of get better at.

And seeing that progression and seeing that improvement, to work on a skill like a muscle-up or a pull-up. You know, all those things. To work on that for a long time and then finally get it is such a good, rewarding feeling.

It’s not so fun when you’re not able to get that pull, that muscle-up the next time you try it. But eventually, you keep working at it and you get really good at it. So I wanted to relate that to also the Better Life Tribe.

Both of these are not actually cults, guys. It’s just a joke. It’s meant for, you know, to be a bit shocking.

But I did join the Better Life Tribe. Brandon Turner put this on. It’s kind of like a mastermind for real estate investors.

And I joined that at the beginning of the year. And I have a group of accountability people that I meet with every week. We go over our goals and we go about talking about our progress in that week for the goals.

And just kind of relate them to how we’re doing overall for the whole year, for the big vision. And when I went to a conference in May for the Better Life Tribe, Brandon shared that he kind of wanted to create or model this whole thing off of CrossFit because of how people are so diehard about it. And so, like there’s a joke about CrossFit.

Like there’s like, you know, there’s a vegan CrossFitter that does meditation and does cold plunges every day and has an Athletic Greens affiliate link. Which of those things are they gonna talk about first? And that’s just kind of a funny joke to say that people absolutely love it when they get into it.

And so my point about all this is, is I feel like it’s a life hack. If you get yourself into a situation that you’re kind of addicted to doing something that’s good for you, that is having a benefit for your life, it’s perfect, right? Like, you know, like I used to, I’ve done all sorts of different exercise.

I think when I first got into exercising at all in high school, I think I started with running. I’m not a runner. I’m meant for pushing boulders around and beating my head with a club.

I’m not meant for escaping things, I’m not fast. But, you know, like it’s something that I did consistently in that, you know, I’ve done a couple half marathons and it’s, there is rewarding elements to that for sure. And I understand that other people are probably more inclined to run just their body type, but also probably just, you know, the ability to get out, be alone with your thoughts.

I can totally understand that. And I think that there’s a great place for that. I’ve done like an orange theory equivalent, which I was really into.

And I learned from that experience that I think that joining some sort of exercise group is just one of the best life hacks for trying to stay in shape. And because you join a tribe and you get into this group of people and you go through hardship together. And I think that’s a really key element that really bonds you with people in a setting like that, because you have to go through a really hard workout.

And an orange theory is hard. I’m not gonna diss it. I’m not gonna say, you know, CrossFit’s superior for all reasons in every way.

But it’s both of those. You have to go through really hard things and get through it, and then come out the other side and feel, you know, victorious, feel accomplished for getting that hardship out of the way. And so I think that’s one of the big elements of why those classes can be really addicting.

You kind of, you get bonded with the people that you’re working out with and you have accountability as well. People might ask you, you know, what are you doing? Why aren’t you here?

That kind of stuff. So highly, highly recommend if you’ve been struggling to, if you feel like you need to get back in shape or you just feel like you should have some sort of exercise routine, highly recommend doing some sort of class. And I think when you start, especially people, I hear this all the time for CrossFit.

I feel like people who would consider starting CrossFit feel like they have to get in shape first before they go to CrossFit. And that’s not the case at all. I think that’s not the case for any kind of class like that because you just have to do what you can do and it’s always gonna be hard, no matter what level you are.

Even if you’re the most super fit person in the world and you join a CrossFit class and try it for the first time, you’re gonna find your, you’re gonna work to your limit. And that’s what the point is, is that you push yourself to work harder than what’s comfortable. Like, you know, you try to run fast to get a faster time, the fastest time you can.

And so if you haven’t really pushed yourself hard in a workout, it’s just kind of defeating the purpose. But again, all that to say, like it doesn’t matter what level you’re at, you’re gonna work hard and you’re gonna get through it and you’re gonna feel better afterwards. So I think that, you know, one of the best things that I’ve done for myself is to become a cult member of the CrossFit clan.

And then also this Better Life Tribe has been such a blessing for me as well. I’ve been super motivated by it. It’s been perfect for me to keep, you know, going and be on track.

But also I’m part of a group of people that if I have a question, that something comes up that I’ve never encountered before or I don’t know how to handle, I have people I can ask. I have close friends that probably have done it. An example of this would be recently we were exploring doing some sort of lease option deal.

And I know the idea behind it, but I didn’t really fully understand it. So I had people that could send me forms to look at and to kind of explain their process, what they’ve, how they’ve done it in the past. And it’s just a great, great network.

And again, there’s been multiple times where I’d like, I get put back in track for the book writing for whatever. I get re-energized to do what I’ve set out to do. And so again, I think that the more, and maybe cults aren’t the right word.

Maybe tribes are the right word. That sounds much better. It’s not as shocking, but I think the more tribes you join, the better you’re gonna feel like you’re gonna, I feel we’re meant to be part of tribes as evolutionary.

So not huge, huge groups necessarily. They might be related to a bigger group, but kind of having a core group of people that you work out with. I think the people, a lot of people would probably experience this in their churches as well.

So I think it’s just a really positive thing that we as people need. I know Eric and I have talked about needing a third place, which I think also very much is in line with what I’m talking about. And what I mean by a third place is you have your job, you have your home.

Now you need a third place to go or to have a tribe in. And that’s again, CrossFit can check that box. You’re a gym.

I think if you’re at a regular time and you’re seeing the same people in a gym, I think that can accomplish it too. But I think there is something about a class setting for that social aspect that will kind of increase. And I’m a social person.

So I get that I might be kind of not, what does it for me, it may not be perfect for everybody else. But I would highly recommend if you are looking to get into an exercise routine and you haven’t explored anything yet to explore some sort of class so that you can get that element of it that will keep you going and keep you motivated to become a more fit version of yourself. Anyway, I succeeded to rant for about 10 minutes.

I can’t wait. We should have a reaction video. Oh, that’d be good.

Let’s do a reaction video of Erica watching my little rant at the beginning. Part of it is she hasn’t heard this stuff before. I mean, she has heard this stuff before.

So it’s not a surprise to her. But no, I joke. Hopefully it shows through that Erica and I have a great relationship.

And this podcast has been so fun to do with her and giving us something more in common to do together. But let’s get into our guest here. Today we have Terri Shower.

Terri is coming from Montreal, Canada. I very much screwed up and said Toronto because I think when I did some research about her, she studied in Toronto for a little bit. So I do apologize that for, it’s probably anybody that lives in Montreal probably really hates me for that.

But anyway, Terri is fascinating. Terri got her PhD and she’ll get into that a little bit as well. But she is very intelligent.

She’s been a competitive martial artist and she has a book and she has a coaching and she’s very intelligent. And she can get into combining why mindfulness is important in your business. But, and she relates that to actual her martial arts practice as well.

All of that is stuff that we got into in this podcast. So we covered a lot of different things. She also has her real estate license and it’s her broker’s license and she’s able to do a couple of deals a year but mostly uses it for the benefits to her business not to pursue a buyer and seller clients.

So anyway, without further ado, we have Terri Shower. Enjoy. All right, welcome back to the REI Agent.

I am here with Terri Shower. I said your last name correct, right Terri?

[Terrie Schauer]
We did, it’s Shower like the shower.

[Mattias]
Yeah, I’ve got a, interesting enough, my wife’s uncle is named Shower. I don’t know very many showers, same spelling.

[Terrie Schauer]
I’m like the only, I’m the only one in like when there were phone books, I was like the only one in the phone book, so.

[Mattias]
I feel your pain. There’s not many Matias’s around. But anyway, Terri, thanks for so much for joining us.

You are coming out of, is it Toronto, Canada?

[Terrie Schauer]
Montreal.

[Mattias]
I am sorry. I did do my homework.

[Terrie Schauer]
I will hold it for you silently for the entire show.

[Mattias]
Anybody listening from Canada is going to really hate me. So sorry about that. But anyway, you are an investor, you landlord and also agent.

Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into real estate and your journey? Because you also, if I remember correctly, you also have, you studied in school for a while. Yeah, tell us about your story about how you got into real estate.

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah, sure. So like I’m pretty much your quintessential accidental landlord. I studied in Toronto, actually, funnily enough, so you weren’t that far off.

[Erica]
That’s what I got it from.

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah, and when I went to college, there was no space in student residences. And so I ended up living in this like crazy co-op house that was not managed. And so basically I moved out of my parents’ house at 19.

And then the day after I found myself voted house manager by the housemates.

[Erica]
Okay.

[Terrie Schauer]
And it turned out like I actually was kind of good at it. And then after doing that for a couple of years, I like house hacked before house hacking was a thing. And then I went to study in Vancouver.

So I’ve done like the trifecta of the three Canadian major cities. And when I moved to Vancouver, I rented a house and like basically set up a house hack and cut my overhead like that. And then when I moved back to Montreal, I was like, hey dad, I’ve been doing this for five years now, like let’s buy an investment property and I’ll run it this way.

So then I did that in one, two, three properties. And then I got tapped out of boring capacity. And then I was kind of at this crossroads at the end of grad school.

So like I did a PhD in nothing to do with real estate that’s in communications. And then I kind of had this fork in the road where I had to decide like, am I gonna be a prof? And is that gonna be my life?

Or am I gonna take the real estate road? And at that point I decided like, no, actually, I didn’t feel like academia was the right kind of place for me. I felt like I had more like a business inkling at that time.

And so then I, at the same time, I got my broker’s license and started a property management company. Yeah. And then that kind of grew, like it was, initially I was just like managing house hacks basically, cause that was the model I knew and it was a great way to add value.

So I was able to like offer my clients, okay, I’m gonna like 1.5 times your rent because I’m gonna rent by the room. And like I had my model that allowed me to do that. And then I started brokering.

And at that point, like I was really a kid who like didn’t honestly know that much about stuff. And then in a weird way, friends and family suddenly started doing deals with me. And then the management really took over.

And like, I built up like my management portfolio and then figured out how to scale the investing a bit. And then now the brokering is really, it’s something that I kind of do as a sideline because when I see that I can help people out, like I kinda can’t help myself from doing it. So typically like investors who are around me wanna make another move or they wanna like structure their portfolio, including their single family home and in a way that allows them to like own two or three rental properties as well.

But you know, we had a little off camera discussion about how like my broker’s license, it is actually quite integral to how I do business. So we can talk about that if you want to.

[Mattias]
Well, yeah, I wanted to go back for a second and just ask how many years you had invested into like the continuing education or not continuing, but like the after high school education to get your PhD. I mean, that’s a big amount of time, I imagine, right?

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah, it was a 10 year road because like undergrad, master’s degree, PhD. And I would say like about halfway through the PhD, like I kind of realized that that was not gonna be the road for me. Like, you know, I don’t know how much your listeners are tuned into this, but like academia has become kind of a weird place in terms of you can’t really necessarily say what you want or what you believe.

And I really ran into that problem because being someone who has like maybe, I guess, more like neoliberal kind of beliefs, like I was trying to write a thesis that was, you know, a bit right-ish. I mean, hardly right in American terms, let’s say right-ish in Canadian terms. You know, whatever, the East side of California, maybe.

And it was too right-wing for my institution. And so they basically like held me hostage and like, you know, delayed my graduation until I rewrote it more to their ideological leanings. And then that’s like, okay, like I’m done.

Like I don’t, I’m not gonna make my life in that direction. So.

[Mattias]
Yeah, I don’t blame you at all for that. And so has there been moments where you’ve regretted doing, going down that path? You have a really bad tenet?

[Terrie Schauer]
No, no, and you know, like the really important thing and the really awesome thing is that like, so now I have a podcast. I wrote a book also. And like, I get to speak and communicate ideas that I actually believe in all the time from my own platform that I’ve built in this wonderful world of real estate.

And so like, I still love ideas. I still love teaching and actually have like a, you know, a coaching program for investors. And so like, I’m able to do all those things.

Like that’s what got me into academia in the first place. But like, I’m free to do it, you know, in line with my own values from this platform that I’ve built. So it’s very, it’s actually very cool.

[Mattias]
So there’s a lot of things that you learned in academia that you can translate to what you’re doing now. It just in a different, in your own way. And I mean, that is one of the things that motivates me the most is just kind of the freedom to do things the way I wanna do them in real estate.

Because it’s not like I don’t, I don’t really not work much. Like I work, I work a lot, but it’s kind of the direction that I wanna work. So that’s awesome.

Yeah, I mean, so then tell us a little bit about how you use your real estate license in your current business structure.

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah, for sure. So I mean, like, look, I guess I’m doing four or five transactions a year. And like, that’s not my bread and butter.

That’s like, I would say more of a sideline compared to the money I make in investing. Like really, my main income is, you know, buying and optimizing buildings. And those are big chunks of change.

There’s then also my management practice and like my brokerage, which I would put financially kind of on the same level. Then obviously, like as an investor, the fact of having access to the back end of the MLS, if you’re working in, you know, investment stuff, it’s so great because it means I have access to the leases, I have access to seller’s declarations. And if I didn’t, and I can use Centris really as like a nice database.

And if I didn’t, I would have to be constantly bothering my broker for those back end accesses. So like just that alone makes my, you know, permit fees and continuing education obligations like justifies it on its own. Then there is also the referral aspect because like I have, so I have a real estate coaching business.

And for my students who come through the coaching business, like I actually have set up a Chinese wall that I can’t service them because I don’t want to end up in that like conflict of interest zone where I’m the coach and the broker, you know? Because like if something goes south on that, like I don’t want to be holding both of those like bags at the same time. But it means that I get to do referral business.

And so able to refer to like, you know, mortgage brokers or to like other real estate brokers. And then obviously there’s a financial reward to that, but I wouldn’t be able to do that if I didn’t have my broker’s license. So, yeah, so like, I think it depends on how you, you know, like people think that, oh, I want to get my real estate broker’s license and I need to like be out there doing transactions.

That’s actually not the case. Like you can really build a nice business. And I have colleagues who only do referrals, like.

[Mattias]
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I think sometimes there would be a little bit, I’ve heard of people that have kind of shifted more into just the investing side of things. And I think that’s a good thing.

And consider letting their license go for the, I mean, there’s the dues are somewhat, you know, they come up every year, but I think more so potential added liability for having your license and that extra kind of hoops if you’re a realtor, that kind of thing. But I think often they do just hold it for what you’re talking about. And they’re not trying to practice unethically or anything like that either.

So it doesn’t really come up. I am curious, you talked about, you know, doing value adds. So is your main investing model, you know, buying a property and, you know, doing a syndication, fixing it up, and then, you know, getting better rents for it that you then refinance and hold?

Or what do you do with those properties?

[Terrie Schauer]
I mean, I’m really a property manager. Like, if you had to ask me, like, what’s your core skill? Like, that’s really what it is.

And I’ve like monetized it in different ways, but that’s really my skill. So like, I will do construction if I have to, but like, it’s really not my favorite thing. And the types of properties that I target are ones that are just very poorly managed.

And like, you know, to be transparent, like the market that I operate in, which is Quebec in Canada, it’s like the Francophone area in Canada. And like, this fact that we have very tenant-friendly laws and that we function in French basically keeps a lot of people out. And so there’s a lot of like very poor management.

And like, I’m happy, I can do very nice business, just targeting those kinds of properties. Then like, I have a management model, I guess, that I put in and that’s gonna be then how I optimize the building. And so like, it ends up being just like a lot of zero tolerance policies on like all the gamut of bad behaviors from like, you know, weed smoking to like pest control to late payments to like all kinds of issues.

And that that ends up then kind of creating a bit of turnover and then like cleaning the place up and then you can attract a better quality of people. And then, you know, it’s really a management optimize.

[Mattias]
That makes a lot of sense. Now, when you talked about having very tenant-friendly laws, do you have rent control?

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah.

[Mattias]
What’s that look like? Is that like a 5%, no more than a 5% increase or?

[Terrie Schauer]
Oh, I’m gonna blow your mind when you see how commie Canada is like. Yeah, like every year, the government puts out like a increase coefficient that’s indexed to actually less than inflation, typically. And so you’re only allowed to increase by that amount with excluding certain fees and then there’s like an online calculator where you have to plug in all your building expenses and basically then it spits out a number at the end and this is the increase that you’re allowed.

But actually very few landlords here when I’m talking about like low professionalism, like very few landlords even make use of that tool. And if you honestly use it properly, like you can get okay increases, but most people are like, oh, I’m just gonna increase $10, you know? So like, yeah, so like there’s that and then even between rentals, you’re actually not supposed to adjust rent to market, you are supposed to increase by that coefficient, but like that’s a very loose set of rules and so like if you know how it works, you can kind of play the game in such a way where that’s not a real restriction.

[Mattias]
That was gonna be my next question is as you’re getting better quality tenants, the turnover, is that an opportunity too? Okay, interesting. Yeah, yeah, that’s, there’s a lot of talk or we had talk here recently about doing a nationwide rent control for the United States and had some guests on that we’ve talked about how that can actually be worse for tenants in the long term.

Do you have any opinions on that, you know, going through the system?

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah, no, I mean, I have lots of opinions on that as you could imagine from like somebody who operates in this kind of area and like look, as somebody who operates here, like for us rent control, it’s like a blessing and a curse, right? Like I talk to people in the US and red states and like because their rents are constantly adjusting to market, the optimizers like me don’t have the kind of opportunities I have. Like my business model works well in a rent control market because like basically I like have strategies to like work around rent control.

So like for an investor, it’s a blessing and a curse. For the tenant, I mean like look, I really think it’s a bad thing. I think it’s a bad thing because when you see like the strategy here is basically like the rent control departments don’t invest a dollar.

And so like there are people and two units can be next to one another and like one is like living in squalor. Yes, they’re paying like half of market rent, but like no landlord here is gonna invest a dime in there only to protect the building, right? And so like, yeah, you’ll repair the piping, but like everything else is rotting and falling apart.

And like Montreal, like which is the biggest city that has the severe rent control in Canada. Like we have most of the like the biggest percentage of depreciating rental stock and we’re actually losing rental units every year because nobody’s building because why would you build in a city where like it’s better to have condos because nobody wants to deal with rent control. And so like it’s this whole vicious cycle and like really what’s happening is like, you know, you’ve got old ladies like living in three bedroom units by themselves that they’re paying 30% of the price for and then the government complains that there’s not enough apartments for families.

So it’s like makes no sense. Anyway, that’s my opinion.

[Mattias]
No, I mean, it’s one of those things that can sound nice and sound like it’s a good thing on paper and when you talk about it, but then when you actually get into the nuts and bolts, so it’s really, you know, I think we talk about it in theory, you know, on this podcast with other American investors, but to actually hear what the end result is, yeah, thank you for that. That’s really, really fascinating. Yeah, so trying to think of a good follow-up question to all that.

Now, what books do you, you have a book out, you have a podcast. Tell us a little bit more about your coaching and what you do in that realm.

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah, absolutely. So my book is called The Mindful Landlord and it really, you know, came out of, like I did spend a whole lot of time in academia. I also had a like a career as a martial artist.

I was like a semi kickboxer for a while and like in that really like working on, I’m not gonna say mindset, I don’t like that word, like working on mindfulness and understanding how your consciousness operates really allows you to get some of those performance gains and like, especially in something like landlording, that’s like so stressful and where you really need to like make decisions that come from a good place. That’s what motivated me to write that book that really talks about how do you put like mindfulness and investing together in a way that’s not gonna, the tagline is for profit and peace of mind. And so the idea is that, you know, that your profit should not come at the expense of your peace of mind.

So that’s kind of the book. And then my podcast is called The Real Escape Investing Podcast. And not so much focused on mindfulness, but more on this idea of, you know, we all get into real estate investing to try to escape the constraints of time, income and geography, right?

Like one of those things is oppressing us and we wanna gain a little bit of liberty from them. And, you know, one of the things that happens along the way is sometimes, you know, we lose sight of it or we sacrifice it or like, it’s not clear, like, are we really leveraging, and getting the leverage we want in those aspects? And so that’s really what the podcast is about.

It’s just how to, you know, plan your escape or how to like leverage yourself in such a way that you’re not so constrained.

[Mattias]
Leverage is also a good jiu-jitsu thing, right?

[Terrie Schauer]
It is. How do you, yeah, how do you, when you’re like, you know, 5’4 and not very heavy, like, how are you able to, you know, use a minimum amount of force for the maximum amount of result? And for sure, like, if there’s a physical principle to that, there’s like 100% mental principles to that as well.

[Mattias]
And so I also think when you talk about mindfulness, I also think about, you know, like meditation, that kind of thing, and being kind of aware of the present moment. Is that elements of what your book’s about as well? You said mindset, it’s not really what you’re going after, but is that part of it?

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah, absolutely. So like, I’ll give you just a two minute kind of redux of what it is, right? Basically like mindfulness is, there are three aspects to consciousness.

So there will be the thinking mind, which is like your thoughts that are like the radio, constantly going. Then there will be like your emotions. And those are, I like to liken them to either the weather or the dashboard lights in your car, right?

Like fear, for example, is a dashboard light. It’s telling you, here’s something you need to pay attention to. And then me as the one who’s driving the car, I get to decide, am I going to pull over and worry about this?

Or am I going to just, doesn’t matter, like this light, I don’t need to pay attention to. So there’s my emotions that I can, you know, learn to interact with as I would the weather or a warning light. And then underneath that is the watcher.

And this is what ends up being called presence or like being in the now. And the more through things like meditation, through martial arts, through yoga, like the more you can learn to identify with the watcher, the more you’re able to use the other aspects of consciousness. So your emotions and your thinking mind, the more they begin to serve you as opposed to you being used by them.

[Mattias]
Awesome. How, I’m just curious now, cause I’ve definitely been a fan of like Sam Harris place and things like that. I’ve done some of the mindfulness, his app, his course.

And other apps for mindfulness meditation. I’m curious about, so I’m familiar with the process of like, you know, pay attention to your breath and kind of turn off all the other distractions and that kind of mindfulness, but you related it to martial arts. And I’m just curious about how that connection is.

I mean, obviously the goal would be for you to be kind of in this state of awareness at all times, but how do you relate it to something so physical that you would maybe to me who does not practice would imagine you would be very far from mindfulness when you’re fighting.

[Terrie Schauer]
Let me put it this way. Like, you know, if you, if you think of like a monk, right. Or like as a white belt, like, trust me, the white belts who come into the gym, like are not mindful.

Right. Like we always joke. It’s like, there’s a hundred, there’s a 200 pound like male nose breather.

Who’s like.

[Erica]
Right.

[Terrie Schauer]
Like not, not mindful, but like the working that like, it’s called the mind body connection and like getting into a flow state. So like there is the Sam Harris, like let me sit on a, on a cushion and like really work my presence muscle. Right.

And like, that is one, the most, let’s say hardcore way. Like if you were doing a diet, that would be like a fast, right? Like that’s like the most hardcore way you can do it.

And then we go like, so I actually started in karate before getting into kickboxing and jujitsu. And like karate is actually, what could I, maybe it’s like keto, right? Like it’s, it’s your, you are training your capacity to remain present while training your body.

And to be hyper aware of like, where’s my fist? Where’s my gaze going when I turn and change positions? Am I looking all over or am I eyes on it would be right.

And so like working that mind body connection is a way to be present in a movement. And so like when we think of meditation, yeah, we think of Sam Harris and sitting on the cushion, but like things like yoga and like more traditional martial arts where there are like positions and stuff like that, that’s like definitely working that, you know, presence muscle, but in a way that’s physical. And like even, you know, meditation pros or monks, like they will do walking meditations.

They will do various different things like that where there is a movement component. Obviously when you then add the opponent factor, right? Because like jujitsu, you’re not doing katas and jujitsu you’re like always kind of like fighting.

But that once you get up like to higher belt levels, like there is a flow state that you get into there and then it becomes a presence game that you’re playing with someone else. And like that can actually be like really beautiful, right? Like if you take how, you know, we play with animals, right?

Like I have dogs, I have chickens and like my interaction with those creatures, like it’s a very present based thing or kids, if you have little kids, right? Like you are very present moment when you’re doing that. And so it’s, you know, to be able to get into that flow state while doing something with another creature, like that’s just like a different form of that thing, so.

[Mattias]
I love it, yeah. Now the flow, explaining it as a flow state makes a lot of sense to me. And I think that one of the ways that I’ve experienced that as well as like music, if you’re ever playing music with other people and you can get into that flow state, it’s one of the best feelings.

And you have kind of unlocked something that I’ve never really fully understood or put words to as to why I feel like there has been such a push or such a popularity rise in jujitsu. And I think that makes a lot of sense with being able to get into that flow state. And I mean, I don’t know if it’s similar to a dance, but in a more aggressive way, maybe.

[Terrie Schauer]
And it gets really wild, right? Because like, there’s this whole like ego aspect of this. And so like, one of the things that you’re doing in like mindfulness training in general is to understand like, what is the position of this thing that is me within this wide universe, right?

And so like, if you get really Buddhist, you’re like, okay, well, there is no me and it, there is only the one thing and I am part of that one thing. And so like, when I affect the outside world, I’m ultimately affecting myself. But then if you like translate that into martial arts, like in the higher belts where you get to is like, like there’s my ego, because like my ego always wants to win.

But like sometimes training with a 10 year old, or like if you’re a man, sometimes you’re training with, you know, 140 pound woman. And then the way that you need to manage that match the strength of the other person and understand that like, it’s not about winning, right? Like if it’s about, I learn, you learn, the way I play that game has to be different.

And so like, that’s what happens between, you know, the white belt nose breather, who like needs to win that match because his ego’s involved to like when you’re a black belt and like, you know, then I can train with that white belt and be like, you know what, it’s okay, you’re stronger than me. Like, if you wanna learn, yeah, you can pin me to the ground, but like you’re not learning anything and neither am I. So let’s not have our egos be the most important thing.

Let’s have the game be more important.

[Mattias]
That’s awesome. That’s a really good description. Yeah, that’s fascinating.

You’re making me wanna go sign up for something. Where should I sign up? I wanna go be that 200 pound nose breather.

No, that’s awesome. And it’s super well said. And I can see, I mean, having control, having mastery of yourself, of your emotions, all that is so, you know, critical for, you know, real estate, managing properties, managing people’s emotions when it comes to buying and selling real estate.

I mean, that is just, it’s a high emotions, high stakes, high stress. And being able to manage yourself is just such an important thing for your clients’ benefits, for your own personal benefits, for the longevity of your career. You can get burned out easily if you don’t learn how to master that.

So that’s a, sounds like your book is amazing. I wanna check it out.

[Terrie Schauer]
Great. No, but I think, you know, I just wanna just kind of like riff off of that. And I think you’re absolutely right.

And you know, like this is like, obviously like my book is more about landlording and a bit less about brokering, but like, it’s the same thing. You know, like people, their level of emotional involvement with their homes and your tenants are like emotionally involved with their homes. And if you’re buying and selling homes, like people are super emotionally involved with that.

Right. And so like, that’s actually one of the reasons why I think I didn’t become like a full on broker. Like when I work with people, I work with investors because that level of emotional involvement, it’s too much for me.

You know? I’m like, I can manage it in the tenant context. Cause that’s like one type of conversation.

But if you have to be like managing, like, you know, people’s anxiety and their, it’s their biggest asset and their home. I mean, could you do anything that’s more stressful to someone? Like, that’s like the most loaded aspect of someone’s life.

And so like, I think real estate brokers, man, it’s like your cycle, the cycle, the psychology behind that is very important.

[Mattias]
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. And you know, you know, like I said, we’re trying to help people learn how to get into investing.

And one of the decisions if they do that is, are they going to self manage? And I think to my point I made earlier is, not only do you have to manage with a new type of stress and you know, like what we’re talking about here with tenants and being different than what you might be used to it in the sales world. You also have to deal with the added liability of being a realtor and taking on property, managing it yourself.

So those are things to definitely consider. Is that, I imagine you have to stay up on laws. I would imagine it’s even harder for you to stay up with all the different regulations, changes for tenant rights, the, you know, like assisted, or animal, what are they called?

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah, comfort animals or whatever it is, like service animals, there you go.

[Mattias]
Yeah, that’s been a huge thing here recently. I imagine you have to do a lot of continuing ed and staying up on that kind of thing as well.

[Terrie Schauer]
Well, like actually, funnily enough, like the continuing ed that I have to do is to maintain my real estate license. The world of property management here is completely unregulated. Like if my eight year old wants to call himself a property manager, like he can go into business as a property manager tomorrow.

[Erica]
Oh, wow, okay.

[Terrie Schauer]
Really unregulated. Now, you’re not gonna be all that effective because for sure there’s a ton of regulation. And like what I would say to the point of like the liability of holding a broker’s license, like I get that question actually a lot, funnily enough.

And like some people are even like, some investors are even like, oh, I’m gonna let my broker’s license lapse because I’m gonna have to declare it when I make a promise to purchase and like maybe the seller is not gonna like that. And like I really like, yeah, so I have an additional form that I have to fill out whenever I make a promise to purchase on something, but like it really kind of ends there. And like I find that like the level of professionalism because it’s like if you are able to show up and be like, look, I’m a professional investor, yes, I have my broker’s license, doesn’t everybody who’s a professional.

And so like I can close, I have this, like we speak the same language and like actually it’s honestly more of an advantage for me than it is a disadvantage because like especially in the investment world, people wanna deal with professionals. They don’t wanna deal with like newbies or people who are gonna do all sorts of weird things that are gonna make a transaction go sideways. They wanna sell at a reasonable price, close, not have someone who’s gonna freak out because one of the tenants has roaches.

And so like the more that you’re able to present yourself as a professional and that real estate license is just like a notch on your belt of professionalism really.

[Mattias]
Yeah, and I think what I’m getting at is if you’re not a licensee and you have a few property that you manage, you don’t have quite the same level of fair housing law like adherence in the states compared to if you are a licensee. And that’s more what I’m referring to because I totally get what you’re saying. I mean, I think that’s, yeah, the more you can present that you’re gonna do the deal that you have experience in it, for sure I feel like you’re gonna get that, them to wanna work with you more quickly.

But if we could go back, I’m jumping around here a little bit, but if we could go back and do you have any other book recommendations? You have your book. You can tell me the name of it one more time.

We’ll have it in the show notes.

[Terrie Schauer]
The Mindful Landlord.

[Mattias]
Mindful Landlord. Do you have any other books that you’d recommend for people to read that have been fundamental or yeah, something that you really think is a good read? It could even be personal, fun.

It doesn’t have to be a business book.

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah, I mean, it’s really a question of which register, right? Because let’s say we’re talking about the world of mindfulness. If you haven’t read Dan Millman’s Way of the Peaceful Warrior, definitely read that.

That was the seminal book that sent me down the mindfulness rabbit hole when I was 25 or whatever. So obviously rich dad, poor dad, if you’re in the world of investing and you haven’t read that, shame on you. And I’ve just recently gotten into the Hormozy series.

So like the leads book, I mean, in coaching, creating an offer. But I think like thinking about leads and how you structure your business. I hear he’s got a sales book coming out.

I think if you’re a broker, like to understand that, I think will help you with this like marketing aspect. Because I think like that’s a pain point that a lot of brokers have with like, or agents have with structuring. Like now you have to be this one stop shop of like real estate expert, but you also have to be a marketing expert.

And so to understand like lead acquisition and like servicing the leads and how you want to interact with that, what are some things that you might do? How might you advertise? How might you create networking events that would benefit your business?

And so to just like, everybody thinks it’s all about Instagram reels, but like it’s marketing can be so much bigger than that. And I think if you expand your mind on that, like it’s really only gonna be good for your business.

[Mattias]
Oh, that’s great. You know, honestly, I didn’t realize he had books. That makes sense.

I just never looked into it. So I’ll have to check those out. That’s awesome.

Thanks for the recommendations. And if people want to have more information about your coaching, about you in general, or is there a good resource? Are you active on Instagram website?

[Terrie Schauer]
Yeah, I mean, like I got all the usual social media channels. Probably my favorite is LinkedIn. I find just like the more kind of serious one, but I’m on Instagram as well.

And I have my website, terryshower.com. So that’s kind of the portal into all things Terry. And you can then see what of the Terry suite is appealing to you if you’d like.

Some of the content in this episode.

[Mattias]
I look forward to it. Well, this has been a fascinating conversation, Terry. I love how we got, yeah, I didn’t know I wasn’t really expecting to go into the mindfulness stuff as much.

And it’s been a often on passion of mine with something that I wish I would do more frequently. So super, super awesome conversation. And I really appreciate your time.

[Terrie Schauer]
Thanks for having me on.

[Mattias]
Thanks for listening to the REI Agent. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week.

[Erica]
Visit REIAgent.com for more content.

[Mattias]
Until next time, keep building the life you want.

[Erica]
All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.