From Dietary Hairnets to Unexpected Rental Wealth Success with Sandra Fernandez

Transcript

[Mattias]
Welcome to the REI Agent, a holistic approach to life through real estate. I’m Mattias, an agent and investor.

[Erica]
And I’m Erica, a licensed therapist.

[Mattias]
Join us as we interview guests that also strive to live bold and fulfilled lives through business and real estate investing. Tune in every week for interviews with real estate agents and investors. Ready to level up?

Let’s do it. Welcome back to the REI Agent, Mattias here. Who wants to hear me ramble about the Super Bowl a little bit, huh?

Anybody excited about that? When this airs, it will be a little bit later. But I wanted to talk a little bit, a couple of my thoughts from coming from just out of the Super Bowl since that was last night at the time of this recording.

But I wanted to talk about like performance, for example. So I think oftentimes people are quick to see things as black and white, see things as good or bad or better or worse. I think that for the game, if we’re gonna use this metaphor here, I could see them playing again here soon and it being a much closer game.

I can’t say I would definitely see the Chiefs winning. The Eagles played very well. The Chiefs played horribly.

And I think it just depends on how they are playing, how they prepared for the game, the pressure they feel, and then the momentum of the game. I think things can change drastically from time to time. So if they were to play again in a week, I could see a very different outcome.

I could see the Chiefs winning. I could see it being much closer. I could see the Eagles winning again.

But again, it just kind of depends on a lot of variables. It’s not just simply one team was better than the other. Oftentimes it is just that.

But what I’m trying to get at here is that if you have a sales year that’s not great, or if you are slow to start, that doesn’t mean you’re terrible. That doesn’t mean you’re bad. You might just have had a bad, you might have been distracted by something.

Right now, I think a lot of people are looking for other avenues to get into things, to get into different brokerages. They’re distracted by other stuff because the market isn’t quite what it was a couple years ago. A couple years ago, you were just, if you walked outside, you’d be hit by a buyer wanting to buy something.

And so, don’t write yourself off too quickly. Know that there might be times where you will just not perform well. You might go to a listing appointment and lose out to somebody.

You’re like, how did I lose out to that person? And it could be that you didn’t perform well. It could be that they performed really well.

It could be that they promised the seller they would sell it for $100,000 more than you did, even though the comps show that’s not possible. So, there’s a lot of different variables. And I think you need to be kind with yourself and show up and keep going.

Not be too, yeah, don’t be too negative if you have even a whole year that’s just an off year. I think you just need to recalibrate, focus on the next year, keep moving forward, be optimistic. And in this episode, Sandra Fernandez talks a little bit about the power of visualization and the subconscious.

She has a book she really recommends on that. I think there’s a lot of truth to that. If you start feeding yourself those stories of being bad or not being cut out for this or whatever, that’s gonna manifest itself.

If you focus on the future, focus on how you can visualize yourself being successful, visualize yourself going to an awards banquet and having sold 50 houses or whatever your goal is. I think that is definitely something that can happen for you. And that starts by kind of feeding yourself the right messages.

So is that a good Super Bowl rant? I also have to talk about Kendrick Lamar a little bit. If time allows, it’s my show, I can talk about it.

I think I saw a lot of people saying that was the worst Super Bowl performance they’ve ever seen, which I guess a lot of people say that after a Super Bowl, but they don’t know the artist, they don’t care. But I wanna see it personally, I wanna see a documentary on all that went into that because there was so much symbolism and so much thought, everything was intentional on that Super Bowl performance. And I just want somebody to explain to me all the thought that went into it.

And you can read, you can go search online, you can read all the different theories of what he meant and there’s some obvious ones. But I just think there’s even more, like I think there just was a lot of intentionality and thought that went into that performance. And it was fun, it was fun to see.

I think he, I can name off a bunch of different things, a country divided, the Uncle Sam saying, controlling how he is performing, he could be the government, he could be the man, the music industry, et cetera, trying to control what he puts out and how he just, that was a reoccurring theme and he didn’t really follow it, didn’t really listen to it always. And then just the gang colors that came out, that were also the American flag and the country divided. I mean, there’s just all sorts of different symbols going through all of that being said, I don’t even know what he said.

I was just looking at the visuals. I wanna go back and dissect a little bit of the actual lyrics from the songs that he was singing because I’m sure there was even more depth there. And it’s just exciting to me when I think somebody has put that much thought into a performance and there’s, I think that’s the goal of art, right?

That it’s more than just the visual you get or more than just the thing you hear that actually has underlying meanings. And then this one was just a masterful weaving of all sorts of different themes. I mean, you had Serena Williams coming out and do the Crip Walk and that was something that she got heavily criticized for doing after I think winning the Wimbledon match or something.

And so she does it on this where they’re talking about the man and the government holding people back and they’re all about black empowerment, right? And then she does it in an ex and she’s Drake’s ex who of course is in a beef with Kendrick. And so they had that element going on as well.

I’m gonna stop there because I think there’s a lot more that could be said. I think it would be interesting to see how much more comes out on it. Again, I want a full documentary hearing how Kendrick thought through everything.

I’m sure there was a very gifted choreographer there. They were dancing. There’s times where they’re marching and it reminded me of like the Pink Floyd, another brick in the wall scene where they’re just kind of, the students are all conforming.

They’re all being transformed into these like robots, basically these faceless, undistinguishable people becoming another brick in the wall. And yeah, I feel like it had the elements of that, but it just, yeah, there’s a lot to be discovered with that. So I hope more and more comes out.

Anyway, back to real estate. So that’s my little Super Bowl rant. Let’s get into Sandra Fernandez who is an interesting person coming out of St. Louis. She was an investor that became an agent and does both simultaneously. She’s a great poster child for this show. I think she represents a lot what we try to teach and is able to walk both worlds at the same time and do so ethically and can help people understand that I think a lot of misconceptions happen with agents, with investors and how they’re sharks and all this kind of stuff.

But I think she can help talk through some of those myths and how there’s an ethical way and how there’s a great way, how you can provide people with better service by being able to offer alternative routes to just listing it on the market. But without further ado, Sandra. Welcome back to the REI Agent. I am here with Sandra Fernandez.

Sandra, thanks so much for joining us.

[Sandra Fernandez]
You’re welcome. Thanks for having me.

[Mattias]
Sandra, you are a perfect fit for this show. You are a realtor and you’re an investor. So I mean, the REI Agent role model right here.

Tell me a little bit about your journey and how you got into the wild world of real estate.

[Sandra Fernandez]
Yeah, it was kind of by accident. I was going through a divorce in 2009 and needed a place to live. So I bought a townhome and I knew at the time it wasn’t my forever home.

You know, it was just that transitional thing. And when I went to sell it in about 2014, I mean, I think a lot of us know what was happening in 2008, 2009 with real estate. So I bought it kind of at the peak before it really new construction tanked in the St. Louis, Missouri market where I’m at anyway. And so in 2014, the property values, especially on condos and townhomes hadn’t really come back yet. So I wasn’t underwater on the property, but my competitive side just didn’t want to sell it for less than I paid for it. So I hung onto it and kept it as a rental for a couple of years and really quickly figured out that this is a pretty cool thing.

Somebody else is paying the mortgage and I’ve got cashflow on top of it and this is pretty neat. So I started looking into it more and then started buying more townhomes and more rentals and then met a friend who was teaching wholesaling because I ran out of money to buy rentals because you gotta put a down payment on if it’s not your primary home. So learned wholesaling, did that for a while, got into rehabbing and then I decided it just made sense for me to get my real estate license because I can sell my own houses and I wanted access to the MLS and my knowledge would help other people buy and sell their houses and find homes and walk through them and make decisions, so.

[Mattias]
Yeah, totally, I talk about this a good amount but I believe fully that my investing in real estate has really helped my sales side. And so unlike you, I started out as an agent and then got into investing. And we talked a little bit before we got on air here but there just seems to be two different worlds and I think a lot of realtors don’t really understand the investing world.

And somewhat it can be like a wholesale versus retail kind of thing. And that’s part of why it’s different but I think it also has some bad connotations. I mean, yeah, so I mean, talk to me a little bit about how you were seen when you first came into real estate.

Were you, did you go into a brokerage, a big brokerage right away? Or how’d you, where’d you join when you became an agent?

[Sandra Fernandez]
Yeah, when I got my license, in the state of Missouri we have to hold our license with a brokerage and I assume it’s that way in most states. So I was shopping around. I didn’t wanna do the traditional realtor route where new realtors have to sit and have desk time and phone time and work in the office and feed other people properties while I’m learning because I really already felt like I knew a lot.

I didn’t know everything but so I looked for a brokerage that was investor friendly that would train me and not make me do the normal rah-rah, jumping through the hoops and I did find that. And I did leave that brokerage after a couple of years. They weren’t as supportive as I needed to on a retail transaction, like on a weekend I couldn’t get support, which most of us selling houses when people are off work on the evenings and weekends.

So I moved to another brokerage. But yeah, I was surprised at how many agents really are fearful or skeptical of investors I guess you would say. They think that we’re sharks in the tank and we’re the bad guys and what we’re doing is illegal or that we shouldn’t be allowed to do what we’re doing.

So I really, I personally make it my mission to network with a lot of real estate agents to let them know I’m the good guy. I’m an agent but I’m also a cash buyer. And even I was surprised when I started wholesaling how many people want or need to sell a home and money’s not their motivating factor.

It could be something else. It could be they’re scared of the mold in the house, they don’t want to get sued or mom and dad passed away in the home and they don’t want people coming through it, they don’t want pictures on the internet, they don’t want the nosy neighbor thing. So that’s where I think we can really add value to people and I fix up the house and then I sell it.

So I’m putting a house that maybe was vacant for years or in terrible condition, putting a lot of money into it and getting it back on the market where a family can move in and the neighbors more often than not come over and thank me because maybe the yard’s all overgrown or it’s been an eyesore for years. Investors are the ones coming along doing that. So I see it as it can really be a good symbiotic relationship but I do run into that.

There is a rub sometimes.

[Mattias]
Yeah and I think, I mean, there are definitely ways that investors could be sharks and there’s definitely examples of that. And so, I mean, to be fair, that’s definitely something that’s out there. So if somebody’s getting a house to wholesale and they’re making $60,000 on it and it’s a $100,000 house or something, you know what I mean?

There’s times where I think it can be predatory and I think there are ways of doing it right and ways of doing it wrong. So, I mean, a wholesaler, you know, there are probably some ways that people do wholesaling that is not quite right as far as like double closes. I don’t even fully understand and it’s probably different state by state but I think there’s definitely some things that people need to be aware of and then there’s also the subject too that I think also can be done properly and done wrong, incorrectly.

And so I think there is a little bit of validity there but I mean, at the same time, there’s definitely agents that lie all the time and say all sorts of crazy things and they’re not being the most ethical people. So like, I think you gotta get to know the world a little bit better and reserve some of your assumptions and get to know some of these investors because I found some of the investors I’ve met and I’ve talked to on this show are incredibly wonderful people that are incredibly abundant and are helping people in what they do. And yeah, providing a house back on the market that was in terrible condition.

I’ve heard it being called recycling a house. So I mean, it does provide a great service and nobody’s gonna do that service for free. If you’re flipping a house and this is how I think a lot of people will talk to a potential person that needs to sell their house is that there’s risk involved when you’re putting that much capital and you’re buying that big of a house, there are unknowns, there’s risk involved.

And then at the end of the day, you’re not gonna work and put all the capital in and do all this stuff for nothing. Like there has to be an incentive, a profit to do it. So it’s not a, yeah, it can be a very logical conversation with a person that needs to sell their house quickly.

[Sandra Fernandez]
Yeah, and I have run into wholesalers and come behind other wholesalers that do give good investors a bad name that either don’t know what they’re doing or they’re, like you said, predatory with the seller, the homeowner. They come in and offer a price that sounds great and then they come back a few days later with a partner and say, well, I can’t really pay that, we can only pay this. And I warn people about that and I don’t do that.

I mean, I have gotten several deals because people had a bad experience and I show them through what I’ve done and my record and what people can see online that I am legitimate and I never even told people, call the title company. They’ll tell you, I really do close, I show up with money. So it’s not, it gives people a little bit of peace of mind but yeah, that happens.

And I don’t know if they’re always predatory or just inexperienced wholesalers because there are things, at least in our state, that you can do that are illegal. Like a wholesaler can’t sell a house, they can assign a contract. There’s a subtle difference there.

But yeah, so I do try to kind of dispel some of the myths and show people what I’m really about. And more often than not, people hug me when they’re done. They say, thank you so much, I didn’t even know this was an option.

I really appreciate you made it easy for us. And I think being an agent lends credibility to that. They know I’m licensed, they can look up my license, they can file a complaint with me, again, through the state.

So I think that helps.

[Mattias]
Well, so are you still actively wholesale at this juncture or are you just picking up properties to sell?

[Sandra Fernandez]
Mostly picking up properties. My son is actually wholesaling now. So we kind of partner that way.

He’s the wholesaler, I list his home. So yeah, but I’m buying, I’m rehabbing. We just got two under contract, we’ll be rehabbing.

So that’s my favorite thing to do, is rehab them and get them ready and put on the market. And that’s why I like working with sellers so much because I love helping them get their home ready. And it doesn’t mean renovating, but sometimes rearranging things or updating a few inexpensive things like a couple of light fixtures or an ugly bathroom mirror or landscaping like that curb appeal.

There’s a lot you can do. And with what I’ve done, I’ve learned affordable ways to do those things that can have a big impact.

[Mattias]
No, absolutely. That’s been one of the biggest things for my sales business is just having the contacts, for one, I’m not doing the work.

[Sandra Fernandez]
Reliable contractors.

[Mattias]
Yeah, that actually, you give them a lot of business so they’re willing to jump for you. They’re willing to move quickly if you need it. They’re willing to get paid a fair but not absorbent amount to do a job for you because, again, you’re providing them scale in their business.

So I found that to be really helpful. And then also just seeing the possibility in a house. That’s something I don’t think many people can.

And that’s so explaining how, I’ve renovated multiple houses here and I can see what it was and how it transforms. That’s Rocoto paint. It’s like this insane transformation that just brightens it up and it’s just like gets exciting when you hear the flip and it’s ugly and it’s looks terrible.

You’re like, oh, what did I get myself into? Then all of a sudden it gets painted and you’re like, oh, this is nice. But you can help somebody understand that your average consumer can’t see that.

They can’t see walking into a house that they’re not gonna have that. This could be really beautiful. So you can help people, either they’re on the buy side or the sell side, help them with the vision or help explain that there’s a gap there that needs to be filled and how you can get a lot of bang for your buck by painting.

[Sandra Fernandez]
Just painting. And right now in our market, inventory is super low, like one month worth of inventory and a normal market is six months. So it’s really drastically low.

So when I’m working with buyers and we’re looking at properties, if there’s some minor things or even some major things they don’t like, I let them know. I can help them make that happen. There’s no kitchen island.

I’m like, oh, I’ve got great contractors. I can get you contractor pricing on cabinets and granite. I’ve got plumbers and electricians.

We can get that in for you. Or if you wish there was a window here or the flooring was different. So that’s where I can go in and help my buyers with that.

And I can let them know it will cost about this much.

[Mattias]
100%. If you don’t mind going back to the wholesaling piece a little bit, I have an opinion about being a licensed agent and wholesaling at the same time. Do you see that as a conflict at all?

[Sandra Fernandez]
It can be, and I’m very careful with that. So I consciously try to avoid that because I hold myself to a really high standard. I don’t wanna go in and take advantage of anybody.

So my first question is to the homeowner or the seller, what do you wanna do with the house? And if they say, I don’t care, I don’t want it on the market, I just wanna sell it. I just want someone that will buy it quick and easy and quietly and privately.

I know it needs work and I’m not gonna get top dollar. Okay, then we talk about wholesaling. If they say, I’m in a jam, I need to get as much as I can.

And whatever, then I’ll say, well, then let’s look at listing it because generally you will get more for listing it unless it needs a lot of work. And if it does, it’s still gonna be an investor that buys it. So why go through the hoops of putting it on the market, inspections, municipal, paying commissions to me as an agent like we can bypass that.

So my business has really worked together and I can tell a homeowner like that, but listen, I’ve got about 800 cash buyers and I’m a cash buyer. Let me, if it’s okay with you and I ask them permission, let me see if someone might be interested or me, would you consider a cash offer from me? So I give people that choice.

I don’t wanna just go in and I tell them to be honest, I make less as a realtor on commission than I do as a rehabber on the profit. But I wanna do what’s right for the seller and I have to sleep with myself at night. I got to live with myself and I want them to be happy and refer me business and say, Sandra really did a good job and she treated me fairly.

[Mattias]
100%, I think that’s such a key piece is just the transparency. And I think that’s where, when people don’t understand the contracts being sold, for example, I don’t see the point of that. I feel like there’s a way to be honest and just explain the situation.

But yeah, so I think the 100%, if you’re being honest with somebody, I personally have never gotten into it. I have done like a finder’s fee before, that kind of thing, but I have never done anything like wholesaling per se. So I think that makes total sense.

Like if you’re being completely honest with the people and you’re giving them options, I mean, that’s the best you can do and you are providing more of a service for them. I mean, most people would not know what to do with a property like that in that kind of situation. They would, yeah.

[Sandra Fernandez]
Yeah, I get a lot of calls from people saying, I don’t know what I wanna do with the house, will you just come look at it? And a lot of agents get that call. We’re not sure, can you give us your opinion?

And if they want to know their options, then I am transparent and I’ll tell them, well, you can sell it on the market with me listed, you can sell it as is on the market, you can still list with me and I can network with my brokerages and all my buyers and try to do it before you get to this process. At least those are all things that we’re allowed to do in Missouri. Each state, I think is probably a little bit different.

But, and I’ve given people, some of the analytical types wanna know, well, what would it sell for at this price? If we did as is, what do you think it would sell for? And if it went on the market, what do you think it would sell for?

So I go through a comprehensive analysis. People want that and give them three or four different price points. And even just listing a house, people will say, well, we don’t really wanna remodel it, but we know it needs work.

What if we just did carpet and paint? What do you think the difference would be selling it as is or carpet and paint? Or what if we rip off the rotten deck and replace that?

So I’ve done those types of analyses for people. And of course they’re just estimates, but I kind of dissect it and show them, well, the house down the street had this and if you do this, then you might expect to get this price. So, and that’s time consuming, but I wanna do that for people because I want them to feel like it is transparent and I’m trying to provide a valuable service and really meet their priorities.

And again, money’s not always a priority. Sometimes it’s time, we don’t have time to do stuff. So what can we do for the least amount of time?

Or we’re out of state. Can you help us with this? We know we need carpet.

Do you know people? Things like that.

[Mattias]
Yeah, totally. Yeah, it’s 100%. It’s like you’re becoming a one-stop shop for people in all situations.

And that’s not all. Yeah, not getting your house perfect for the market is definitely not a situation that everybody can do. And it takes capital, it takes knowledge, it takes time.

So it’s, yeah, 100%. That’s exactly how I look at it too. So now talk a little bit about niching into investor space.

Do you use your investor knowledge to help people buy investment properties?

[Sandra Fernandez]
I do, yes. And I get calls all the time. People are looking for rentals, rehabs.

So I talk to investors about that or wannabe investors that people will say, I wanna do this out nowhere to get started. Can you help me? So I wanna find out what are their priorities?

What do they want? And sometimes they don’t know what they want. They just heard they can make money in real estate investing and just kind of want an overview.

Some people know they want rentals. So then we decide like what areas are you looking in? What are your cashflow goals?

What are your long-term goals? Do you just want a couple for a little money or are you looking to get apartment buildings? And then we spend a lot of time on rehabbing.

What are the good areas to rehab in? What can you afford to rehab in? What’s the sellability?

In St. Louis, we’re an old town. I mean, we have some homes that are almost 200 years old here and depending on the part of town. So we have 88 different municipalities around here.

So we have all these pocketed neighborhoods and they all each have their own character and flair and price points and different school ratings and things like that. So as an agent, that’s where I put my agent hat on, like what are your end goals? If you ever wanna sell it, we need to focus on an area that at least at this point in time has appreciation and looks like it’s gonna have good potential.

If it’s more of a rundown area and you just really want cashflow, you can buy those properties cheap, but it may never be worth more than what you paid for it. So kind of just analyzing what their priorities are and steer them in the way that will meet those goals.

[Mattias]
Yeah, that makes sense. I’m curious how you handle if there is a fixer-upper that you’re helping somebody buy, the after repairs value. Cause I don’t, especially if they’re new, they probably don’t have a great idea of exactly what they’re gonna do to fix it up.

So that’s always hard for me cause I’m like, here’s what comps show, but like it really depends on how, what you do. If you don’t do any of the things that we think would make sense, then you may not sell for what I’m telling you.

[Sandra Fernandez]
Right, right. And that’s where being a realtor really helps. I mean, even when I, before I got my license and I was taking my wholesaling classes, we were told align with a realtor.

You know, like you need the MLS comps. Those are the gold standard. You can look on Zillow and Redfin and realtor.com, but Zillow, for instance, doesn’t keep their listings up to date, especially, and this is how it happens. It’s an individual like you list your home for sale and maybe it sells, but you never go back and mark it sold. So people see it, but they don’t know what sold. And then they call me and they’re frustrated when they find out it sold seven months ago and it’s still sitting there.

And then we don’t know what the real price was. So the MLS is the gold standard. So I spend a lot of time and I do a deep dive on the analysis.

I look at the neighborhood. I look at the amenities of the house, the features. You know, I wanna make sure we’re comparing the same bedrooms, bathrooms, square footage.

Does it have a basement or not? And is it finished or not? And is there a garage or not?

Is it attached garage or detached? How many bays? Is there a pool?

Is there amenities close by? Which school district is it in? Because some of them around here are good and some are not so good.

Is it close to a commercial property? You know, if you’re across the street from Walmart, that property, at least in St. Louis, is not gonna sell for nearly as much as if you’re surrounded by parks and suburbs. So, and then once we establish that, then I start looking at the pictures in the house.

What’s been updated? Is this kitchen updated or not? Does it have granite or not?

Does it have new flooring? I’m not so worried about the paint, but, you know, what’s in the house? If nothing’s been updated or it’s been partially updated, I really try to compare apples to apples.

Maybe the kitchen’s new, but nothing else. Maybe, you know, it’s got a sunroom and one doesn’t, or maybe the sun, it’s got a sunroom, but it’s 50 years old and still plywood on the inside. You know, so I really, and then I show that to the seller to give them an idea, because people say, well, the one down there sold for this.

Well, let’s look at it. Let’s see why. And then I try to pull one that sold for a very different price and show them that, and then they start to really see the difference and what buyers are willing to pay for.

[Mattias]
Yeah, so like if you’re working with a buyer that’s buying a rehabbed property and they’re wanting to know what, or wanting to buy a property to rehab, and they’re wanting to know what it was gonna sell for, you could probably, and I’m guessing St. Louis would have enough comps, too, that you could probably find ones that are pretty renovated that you could show examples of, so they could like, so if you base your renovations off what is done in these properties, this is what the comps are showing what it would sell for? Is that kind of the approach there?

[Sandra Fernandez]
Exactly, and I do that when I’m looking at properties. I mean, I’ve been doing it long enough now, I kind of know, and the market does change, but I know in this part of town, houses are really nice. So we need upscale this, that, and the other, or in this part of town, really, you know, it’s first time home buyers and they don’t expect all the bells and whistles.

They just are happy they can get in a house. So it can be a little more basic. So, but I do that.

I look at pictures in the neighborhood. Okay, what’s sold lately and for how much and what were the differentiators? So I do that in my own business.

[Mattias]
Yeah, totally. I’ve just had that struggle of like, you know, how do I tell you what this house will sell for after you’re done with it? Because I don’t know exactly what you’re gonna do to it.

But yeah, like I think it’s, you gotta keep it kind of probably, they say always have a range, right? When you’re doing valuations anyway. So point to the comps and that’s what I’ve been doing a lot with listing agents like you talked about, or sorry, sellers that like we talked about where we kind of point to, you know, this is a house that hasn’t had any recent painting or, you know, there’s different colors in every bedroom.

It’s got old carpet. It doesn’t look very nice. This is what it’s sold for.

Break down the, you know, cost per square foot, above grade, below grade, unfinished, finished, et cetera. And then show them like one that was, yeah, really nicely renovated and kind of what the cost per square foot was on those. So whenever you can lean on the comps, I think it just really, yeah, it makes you more valid.

And you’re not like promising something, you’re just saying this is what, you know, what has happened is indicating this may happen for you if you do these things, so.

[Sandra Fernandez]
Right, and I do tell people, you know, be aware of the season the home will be ready to sell in. You know, at least in our area, home sales, except during COVID, but traditionally are slower in the winter because St. Louis gets a pretty good winter. Like we’re expecting more ice and snow this week, you know, so buyers just aren’t out as much.

But if you’re February through August, that’s peak here. So you can get a little bit higher price. So that’s something we look at here too.

[Mattias]
Yeah, totally. And that’s always a conversation when you’re getting ready to, when should I list the house? When’s the best time?

And yeah, that’s totally a thing. Cause I think a lot of leases will come up in the summer and spring, summer, fall, but you know, hotspot would be summer. And then, you know, people are looking to move more when the kid’s out of school, all those kinds of things.

So it makes a lot of sense to plan that out as well. And yeah, of course, weather has an impact as well. We’re going to get something too.

Looking forward to shoveling out some tenant properties.

[Sandra Fernandez]
Ah, yes.

[Mattias]
But, okay. So tell me more about what else you’ve invested in. So you do flips.

So you will sell the house that you renovate. What do you keep? And what’s your rental portfolio look like?

[Sandra Fernandez]
Okay. Over the years, I was up to about nine rentals, which was a really comfortable number for me. My goal was between 10 and 20 and then COVID hit.

And when real estate prices skyrocketed, I sold a lot of them because frankly, the appreciation was worth more than, you know, five to 10 years rent. So I only have three right now. And I personally, after having started and having rentals all over the area, I’ve decided to leave them within about 20 minutes of my home.

And then there’s one other little pocket I’ll look at that I like. Because I want it convenient. I manage my own rentals.

So I want them to be in areas that I feel comfortable going at night. Good school districts, so I can attract good tenants. And by the way, police officers and school teachers are the two best tenants I’ve found so far.

They are super reliable. I know I tell people like, how to market that? I don’t know.

They won’t let me go on the police station and tack it up on the bulletin board. But so, you know, convenience and locality and safety are my criteria first. And then secondly, there’s two main counties I work in.

And then one, you know, I look at the data, I love data. You know, our appreciation is higher in the county I live in and the next county over. So if people are trying to decide between the two counties, I have them look at the data.

And I like to have my cake and eat it too. I want good cashflow and appreciation. So that’s, I’ve made more selling my rentals than renting them because of the appreciation over time.

So, you know, will a COVID type market hit again? I don’t know. But yeah, I tell people if you can, and I actually teach around that.

Here’s what you need to look for to maximize your cashflow and appreciation. But some very successful investors don’t care about the appreciation. Like I have a friend, he says, I buy disposable houses.

I want them cheap. I just get them cleaned up, put the section eight person in there or, you know, basic renter and then, you know, whatever happens, happens. Okay, that’s not my taste.

I like a little bit nicer property, closer. But, you know, I’m a female going there by myself at night, not a man. So safety, you know, as realtors, they teach us that.

[Mattias]
Absolutely.

[Sandra Fernandez]
Yeah.

[Mattias]
Yeah, I think it’s interesting. You can look at the, you know, get your base of cashflow needed, the cashflow you need to like live off of. You can get that, try to get that covered with maybe less appreciating properties and then maybe move some of your assets into some better appreciating properties and see how that plays out over time.

But it’s an interesting game to think about. And I haven’t done much investing in outside of where I live, but, you know, that’s one of the things you can do is you can invest in a different market that would have better appreciation or better cashflow, depending on what you’re looking for to build up whatever bucket you’re trying to fill. So the other thing I’ve loved recently is syndications.

You know, talk about hands-off, easy, get all the benefits of real estate investing, great tax, better tax return than I’ve ever gotten from anything I’ve invested in. And yeah, and you get the hands-off money coming in every quarter, so can’t complain about that. Yeah, so tell me a little bit about your favorite book.

If you have one that’s fundamental to you, one that you think everybody should read or just one that you’re kind of liking right now.

[Sandra Fernandez]
You know, right now I think, and I wanna tell you the author, the one I’m reading right now I think is my favorite book. I like to read more business type books and some of them are just super boring. But right now I’m reading The Power of Your Subconscious Mind by Joseph Murphy.

It’s really good. Are you familiar with that one?

[Mattias]
No, I don’t think so.

[Sandra Fernandez]
And it’s not just about business. I mean, he has a whole section where he’s talking about your relationships and your marriage and he does talk about buying and selling houses, but it’s more about going inward and I’m all about mindset and you own your attitude and your reaction to things and the positivity and power of attraction and all of that. But this one is more about you set your expectations and what you want and then you will attract those things to you.

So it’s kind of like Law of Attraction, but it’s more working on yourself. I really like it and it’s a pretty easy read. That one I think is my favorite.

[Mattias]
Yeah, you know, I kind of remember getting into the self-help space a while back and hearing things about like, you know, the whatever the mantras you say to yourself or the things that you write down a hundred times or whatever and it just seemed kind of hokey at first, but then you start thinking about it and you’re like, well, yeah, like if you’re only seeing, like when you go to buy a car, right?

And you’re thinking about buying a white truck and now all of a sudden you’re seeing white trucks everywhere and you just see those things that you put in your brain. You’re training your brain to see things and that sounds like what that is essentially saying. Is that correct?

[Sandra Fernandez]
It is, right. Yes, you’re training your brain and it’s letting your subconscious work for you while you’re sleeping. Because a lot of the world’s greatest problems and a lot of the best inventors, their ideas have come to them in their sleep or they wake up and they’re like, oh, I got it.

Because your brain relaxes and allows it, you know, the juices to get flowing. But I also believe in the Law of Attraction and what we put out there, especially for putting good thoughts and good vibes out into the world, they are going to come back to us. So it’s really interesting.

I think the most powerful part of it, at least what I’ve had the best experience with, is just visualizing. So like you said, writing things down a lot, I do journal, but visualizing and not just seeing things in your mind’s eye, but experiencing them in your mind’s eye. Like if I want to sell this house and I’m worried it’s not going to sell or maybe it’s the wrong time of year, you know, the slower time of year, then I start visualizing what an ideal buyer, you know, like visualizing a couple coming up to the house and they’re so excited to see it and they’ve got their realtor and they’re already taking pictures and calling their parents.

And then, you know, like visualize being at the closing table and everybody’s so happy. And beyond that, I also visualize like, you know, I’m drinking coffee at my title company. They’re always sweet and they always have fresh coffee.

So I’ve got my cup of coffee there and oh, the coffee smells so fresh. And I know that seems hokey, but if you work on visualization and invoke your senses, our subconscious mind does not know the difference between pretending like you’re smelling coffee and really smelling coffee. And it’s just like setting that impression in your brain.

And I have like been blown away at how many times the scene I played out in my head actually happens. And it like, it almost freaks you out. Like, oh my God, exactly what I expected, you know, like your dream home or your dream vacation.

And, you know, you’ve always wanted to go to Disney World and you actually get there and you’re just in awe, like, oh my gosh, this is exactly what I was hoping for.

[Mattias]
So, yeah. It’s kind of like, it’s kind of like planning too, like a little bit. Like, so I have one of the best examples I have of that.

And they talk about this in sports a lot. There’s a lot of, if you visualize something in sports that it helps you become, perform better. So there was a time where I was really trying to learn muscle-ups and CrossFit.

If you haven’t tuned into the show yet before, I am in the cult of CrossFit and like to talk about it. But muscle-ups was something that I really wanted to achieve. And one time I worked on it too hard and I actually kind of like hurt myself, had to lay off my shoulder for a little bit.

It wasn’t anything serious. It was just needed a stretch in the right way and lay off it for a little bit. But while I gave myself that break, I watched videos and I started visualizing what, I figured out what I was doing wrong.

I figured out that my kipping motion was not tight. And if I just made that more rigid and just made those kind of motions that it would come to me a lot easier. And I, when I finally figured out how to do the right stretches and figured out my body right that I could get back into the gym, I had hopped on the bar and I swear I almost shot through the roof the first time I tried it.

And it was like the coolest thing in the world because like I hadn’t done it, tried anything for like two, three months, right? And all of a sudden I’m coming back and like able to do it way better than I’ve ever had just because I was doing the visualization and it’s powerful. It does work.

[Sandra Fernandez]
It does work.

[Mattias]
Sandra, where’s, oh yeah, Sandra, you have a book. Let’s talk about your book.

[Sandra Fernandez]
I do. I published my first book in December. So I’m so excited about it.

It’s called Rental Wealth. And I started in real estate with rentals kind of by accident. So you get to read about my story because people are always asking how did you get started?

My first career was in hospital food service. I was a registered dietician and I ran food service operations for big hospitals in St. Louis. So what a deviation to go from wearing a hairnet in a hospital every day to being a realtor.

People want to know how did that happen? So I talk about that in the book and my divorce is what really led to it. Like I said a little bit earlier, just kind of by accident, ended up with a townhome, needed to sell it, but ended up making it a rental and figuring that out.

So from someone that did not come from a background of, my family was not wealthy, nobody was in real estate, nobody had ever owned a rental or flipped a house or we have no realtors in our family even. So I just talk about my journey through that and then what I learned and really doing rental properties is it’s a simple process when you break it down. Once I figured it out and I had the formula, I knew that I could teach it to people and it’s not that hard.

So it’s not a thick book, it’s not a novel, but it’s just like almost like a workbook, like here’s what you do. And then there’s many more nuances to actually managing the rental and managing tenants, but the mechanics are in here and I share all my best tips. So it started as a rental course I was teaching a few years ago.

People wanted to learn how to do it. And then I wrote an ebook like seven years ago. So I finally got it published.

So I’m very excited about it, thank you.

[Mattias]
That’s awesome, congratulations on that. That’s gotta feel like it’s such a great accomplishment to get that out and published. Yeah, so if people are interested in that, is that an Amazon thing?

Where do they go?

[Sandra Fernandez]
Yep, it’s on Amazon and you can buy the paperback version and there’s also an ebook you can download on Amazon. It’s called Rental Wealth, there’s a bunch of them. I like this one and other people have told me they like it because it’s a quick, easy read and like the answers are right there.

Like it’s not a 200 or 300 page book you have to figure out. Like it really is like a handbook into getting started with rentals.

[Mattias]
Oh, that’s awesome. And if people wanna follow you, maybe buy in St. Louis. St. Louis, where do they go?

[Sandra Fernandez]
SanderSellsSTL is one of my Facebook handles and on Instagram. My website for investing is firstfreedomproperties.com. So and we just revamped that website so it’s way easier to use and you can see some of the properties we’ve done.

I talk about buying and selling and then I’m also wanting to branch out and I really enjoy helping people do this because I feel like so much of real estate investing, it’s like this big scary thing and there’s a ton of nuances to it but really to get started is, I shouldn’t say it’s easy, it’s not but there’s a few simple things you can do and so I’m coaching people and I can do that all across the country. I’m in the St. Louis market but I can help people. Like if you’ve got a phone, we can FaceTime. If you just want me to help you walk through a property and try to help analyze it, I can do that. Like if we get on FaceTime, I will walk you through a property, show you what to look for, make some recommendations.

So that’s really what I’m looking to help people with is just, you know, I’m not a coach, I’m not a real estate coach but just really smaller, you know, a la carte consulting. So some of that information’s on there too.

[Mattias]
That’s great. Yeah, that’s so awesome. Thank you for what you’re doing.

I mean, helping people along the way. That’s obviously important to you, not just making money. So thank you for all that and thank you for being on the show.

[Sandra Fernandez]
You’re welcome. Thank you so much. I enjoyed being here.

[Erica]
Thanks for listening to the REI Agent.

[Mattias]
If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe to catch new shows every week.

[Erica]
Visit REIAgent.com for more content.

[Mattias]
Until next time, keep building the life you want.

[Erica]
All content in the show is not investment advice or mental health therapy. It is intended for entertainment purposes only.