Journey from Navy Service to Stylish Real Estate Mogul with Marcus Norman

Transcript

Mattias
(0:03) This is The WELLthy Investor Show, where we don’t just talk about your wealth, we also talk about your holistic health. I’m your host, Mattias.

Erica
And I’m Erica.

Mattias
(0:11) And this is The WELLthy Investor.

Well, I just got done with the podcast with Marcus Norman, and I’ll introduce him here in a little bit. But we covered a little bit, got in a little bit about raising kids and parenting.

(0:28) And it just kind of got me thinking, it’s too bad Erica’s not here. She couldn’t make this one. I believe the next one we’re recording, it will just be her.

(0:35) So all you Erica fans will get her shortly. But yeah, we’re talking a little bit about parenting and how he said that the most important thing that his parents taught him, the most valuable thing that his parents taught him was how to think critically.

(0:51) And we kind of got into just the differences between having a nine to five job, being employed by somebody, and being into like self-employment or owning businesses and that kind of stuff. A lot of people fear that going on your own, but we were talking about what seems secure with your job, if you get laid off, if the industry changes, like COVID happens, what are you gonna do?

(1:20) And we talked about how in his business, he has created different businesses. He’s been successful in different businesses, and he is able, he doesn’t have, most of his businesses have been paid for now.

(1:31) They’ve been out there long enough, he has ATMs, for example, that the machine’s been paid off. And if for some reason we don’t use ATMs anymore, he’s got a pivot, he can. I mean, he’s got that skill to think about new businesses, new opportunities, think critically through them and to pursue them.

(1:52) And that is something that gives him joy. Not saying that everybody needs to do this kind of stuff, but in a lot of ways, that is what security is, because life does happen, things do change. The more things that he builds up for passive income, the better off he is, obviously.

(2:11) I mean, he’s creating, he’s already self-employed, he doesn’t have another job, but he’s letting these passive vehicles, he’s still filling the ATMs, still filling the cannabis containers, but he could hire that out, and then he would be able to remove himself from the equation and still earn money.

(2:29) So it’s just been on my mind a lot about how to raise kids. I think that in the US culture, we are very much, like you need to go to college, you have to go to college.

(2:42) If you don’t go to college, you have kind of failed our society. And I think that schools, high schools and everything like that, they kind of prep you that you’re gonna make more money if you go into college. I don’t think that’s true.

(2:54) Like, I think there’s a lot of people that go to college, and there’s good reasons to go to college, and it’s not all about the education. But I think it needs to be more intentional. And I think that you need to really know what you wanna get out of it.

(3:07) You need to think about your return on investment, your ROI. How much does that school cost? What career are you gonna do from that education?

(3:15) How much does that career pay? And then you may still not like it. And I know a lot of people that went to college that now are self-employed, do their own thing, and me included.

(3:28) And I don’t regret going to college, don’t get me wrong. I think it was a good period of my life, and a fundamental growth period of my life. And education and building your brain is the most important thing.

(3:41) So I don’t necessarily regret it. I wouldn’t say, tell my kids that they shouldn’t go to college. But I think that more emphasis on thinking through what it is you’re getting out of it should be instilled in kids.

(3:54) And let them know that, you know what? Being an electrician, being a concrete worker, whatever, those are really good occupations. And you might find way more fulfillment having your own concrete company.

(4:08) You may find way more fulfillment being a realtor, where you are more or less your own boss. So it’s just, I think there’s kind of two worlds. The school system kind of gears you towards being an employee.

(4:22) And I think that we should have some sort of emphasis, or maybe it’s just the parent’s job, to help teach kids that there are other opportunities out there. Marcus and I talked a little bit about how we both weren’t really geared for the school system. It wasn’t something that we really did excel at.

(4:42) So I never failed out of school. You know, I did fairly well in school. But it was mostly like, somewhat paying attention, doing the bare minimum, being able to figure out questions on the test, thinking critically, I guess, and cramming.

(5:02) No chat GPT at the time, so I had to write my papers. But I think that at the end of the day, I’m not motivated by that kind of extrinsic motivation. I’m not motivated by getting a good grade.

(5:16) I don’t really care about this topic. A lot of this stuff felt like busy work. What’s the point in this assignment?

(5:22) You just want to make me do something, and you feel like you need to make me do something so you can give me a grade. What’s the point in this? Whereas I might find something else super fascinating that I want to go on a deep dive on and learn that could be a career.

(5:36) And I think that’s what Marcus did. He started house hacking, and then he looked for the next thing. So I won’t get into all his story because you’ll hear it here soon.

(5:50) But yeah, I think raising kids is about helping them understand what all options there are in life, that trying to let them really explore and have the courage to explore things, and being okay with scraping your knees along the way. You learn a lot from failing, and it’s not the end of the world. Usually.

(6:15) So that’s my little two cents on raising kids. I have a lot of thoughts, or I struggle a lot with also raising kids with wealth, and how to effectively pass it on without stunting them. And so the more…

(6:33) Yeah, that’s another topic for another day. But in the meantime, we have Marcus Norman. He’s out of Hampton Roads area in Virginia, close to Virginia Beach, Newport News kind of area.

(6:46) He is owner of… He did house hacking, so he had real estate properties, got into the ATM business, and now does dispensaries for cannabis products. And those are actually a really cool vending machine type thing.

(7:06) So definitely stay tuned to that because it involves blockchain. We go down a little bit of a rabbit hole, but not too much. But yeah, without further ado, Marcus Norman.

Marcus Norman
(7:19) Welcome back to The WELLthy Investor. I’m here with Marcus Norman. Marcus, you’re coming out of the Hampton Roads area, right?

Mattias
(7:23) Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Marcus Norman
(7:26) Another Virginia person. No, you’re not the first. And actually, I had a realtor in your area on the podcast already as well.

(7:45) So I was going to say, I think you might be the first Virginia person, but it’s just been a while since we’ve had a Virginia person.

Mattias
(7:48) Absolutely. Glad to hear that we’re taking off finally. Watch out. Watch out, California. Watch out, Texas.

(7:55) Virginia’s next. Marcus, so you’ve kind of delved into a lot of different things. You’ve got that entrepreneurial spirit. Do you want to tell us a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey, kind of how you got started?

Marcus Norman
(8:07) Absolutely. And thank you for having me on this incredible show. Glad to be here. Happy to be here. This is awesome.

(8:15) What got me started in my entrepreneurial journey is kind of similar, but I was active duty Navy. I served eight years in the United States Navy. Thank you. Served my country.

(8:23) Got out in 2014, it was. Got out in 2014, and I suffered what most veterans suffer from is trying to find a job, right?

(8:37) You spend your military career serving your country, doing something unique and different. I was in the submarine force. And so you can imagine, it’s very hard to find a transitional job that doesn’t translate, right?

(8:51) Where do you go? You go from working on submarines to what? Pushing papers.

(8:56) And so I had a very difficult time finding employment, and it took a minute. So that kind of kick started because you have to find a way. I owned a home.

(9:04) I owned my primary home, and I needed money, right? And while I was working for a job, I dove into sales and marketing and advertising.

(9:16) And so worked for

, got my life insurance license, was selling policies to make money once I got licensed and credentialed, and then just got door to door, did it all.

(9:30) I worked for Aflac. I worked for State Farm. I worked for Geico for a short period of time and got my feet wet in the industry, in the sales industry.

(9:38) And also some multi-level marketing. And so all of those things combined and showed me that, two things. One, that a job is a placeholder, but really and truly what withstands the test of time is what you can produce out of your own skillset, right?

(9:59) Because that lasts a lot longer. A job, COVID showed us this. COVID showed us that our jobs are temporary as long as your employer finds you useful.

(10:08) But what you can create on your own, that’s what withstands the test of time. And that’s where real legacy lies, right? The grocery store, you run out of groceries today, you’re gonna try and run to the grocery store, but what do you do, right?

(10:21) If the grocery store says we don’t have any more milk? Well, if you have cows and chickens and you got your own produce, then there’s nothing really stopping you from growing your own food and feeding your family. And so those industries, sales and multi-level marketing and business showed me that it’s better for me to build something on my own in case an employer decides not to rehire me or keep me on board anymore.

Mattias
(10:44) I love that. That’s something that people often, I think, get wrong. I think that like going out on your own seems risky and scary, and we’re always taught to go into like your job, get a job, be hired in a big company or whatever.

(10:59) But man, people get laid off all the time and it’s not secure. Not even factoring in a pandemic, that’s a whole nother thing that we weren’t expecting. But no, you’re totally right.

(11:12) Like it’s, if you can kind of create your own wealth, your own, you know, you’re talking about chickens and cows or whatever, but like, you know, if you can create your own money instead of your own food, that’s another way of just, you know, being more secure, really. I love that. That’s a great story.

Marcus Norman
(11:31) Thank you for sure. You have to do something on your own. One of the things that got me started in real estate was I house hacked, right?

(11:39) I just bought this four bedroom house and it was just me, right? I was, cause I was following all the same rules that you and I and everyone probably listening was taught. Right?

(11:48) You gotta go to college, get the degree, get the high paying job, get the wife, get the mortgage, and then you’ll be set for life, right? Get the pension. Well, there’s no pensions.

(11:59) There’s 401ks is, and with a match, it’s not even enough to retire on. And so somebody just whispered in my ear, another investor, he just whispered in my ear and he said, you know, you should rent out those bedrooms for some passive income.

(12:13) And I literally posted, I didn’t even believe it, but I posted on Craigslist, you know, room for rent, $600 a month. And within 30 minutes, I had 10 applications.

(12:26) Within an hour, I had two people come into a walkthrough and in two hours, I had first month, last month’s rent and a security deposit.

Mattias
(12:38) Oh, that’s nuts. Did you even know the term house hacking at the time?

Marcus Norman
(12:42) I absolutely did not.

Mattias
(12:44) Yeah.

Marcus Norman
(12:44) Even though I was subscribed to big platforms like, like yours and, and things like Bigger Pockets. It never dawned on me like this is house hacking.

Mattias
(12:53) Yeah, no, I mean that, I feel like that a lot of people end up doing some one of these things and not realizing or implementing a certain strategy. But thank you, Brandon Turner, for giving it a name. He coined it.

(13:04) He coined it. Yeah, that and I think he did that one. And then Bird was definitely him.

(13:10) But yeah, so, so you, you got your toes wet in the, the investing world. You got some passive income. Did it cover your mortgage at that point or how, how well did it do?

Marcus Norman
(13:20) It did really incredible because it covered my mortgage. And then, then the, the light bulb went off, right? Because that was only one bedroom.

(13:29) So I was in a four bedroom house. I rented out one bedroom. So I washed, rinsed and repeat, repeated the process, did it again, same thing occurred and got two tenants and had now the mortgage was already covered with the first guy.

(13:45) The second guy was just surplus. And then it just snowballed from there. Cause then, you know, like I said, I was out in the military after interviewing and applying and applying, applying like crazy.

(13:55) I found some decent employment, employment, some gainful employment. So now I’m just sitting on money, right? What do you do when you have a paycheck, your bills are paid, your mortgage are paid, your big ticket expenses are paid and you just got cash.

(14:09) So what do you do, right? And you go to Vegas, you go to Vegas, you party it up and you, you, you party it up. But yeah, it, it, it opened Pandora’s box in my mind and I was unleashed from there.

(14:24) And my mind just expanded from there.

Mattias
(14:27) So you, you got really into that. Like, like how do I invest this extra money? How do I, you know, turn this into more kind of things that what I’m picking up?

Marcus Norman
(14:36) Absolutely. If it’s not making me money, I don’t, I don’t want it. I don’t own it.

(14:39) I don’t want it. If, I mean, we, in, in 2024, in this day and age, right? You can make a full-time income off Uber, right?

(14:48) You can make a full-time income off freelance work. Just, just, you know, doing video edits, you know, whatever your skillset is. But if, if it wasn’t making me money, I did not buy it.

(15:00) And it, my mind just opened up to, to a bigger picture because now my employer doesn’t control my life as much.

Mattias
(15:11) Yeah.

Marcus Norman
(15:12) And if I can maximize this and capitalize this. And again, when I was sitting on all that money, I was looking at, okay, what can I, what else can I do? Well, I saved up some of that money, bought a duplex, right?

(15:19) And, and, and started that, that train and just saying, hey, let me- Did you move into the duplex or did you just buy it separate?

Mattias
(15:30) I did move into the duplex because I was required to via the loan that I qualified for.

Marcus Norman
(15:36) Yeah.

Mattias
(15:36) And then, but after some time had passed, I was able to move out and rent out my site.

Marcus Norman
(15:42) So now I’m, I own three doors, right? Three properties and wash, rinse and repeat. So it was, it was really insane from there.

Mattias
(15:51) That’s awesome. I mean, that’s, that’s honestly, like I’m, so I’m writing a book and it’s kind of like geared towards how agents need to get started in the business. And I think that if they’re young and flexible and have like you don’t maybe not have a whole family that they have to, it’s harder to move a whole family around, right?

(16:06) I mean, you can do it, but, and it’s harder to rent out rooms if you got like little babies and all that kind of stuff. But, but yeah, if you’re starting off your career, I mean, that is like a no brainer. If you can just put up with a little bit for a little bit of time, you’re going to be so well set because you probably put a loan down payment on you.

(16:23) Did you use a VA loan for your, for your properties?

Marcus Norman
(16:26) Yeah. So a hundred percent financing. You got into a house, right? You maybe paid some closing costs and then you rent, you made great money running out the rooms.

(16:35) You’re able to save and buy a duplex that you had to move into a hundred percent financing again, or yeah, amazing. So like able to get into that, get that going.

(16:45) And then did you move into another one? I mean, that, this is like perfect.

Mattias
(16:51) You literally wash your hands and repeat. And if you’re a realtor, right? I feel every realtor should attack every VA military person you see and just say to them, what I just, what we were, what we’re talking about is listen, use your VA loan, buy a, you can get all the way up to a fourplex, no down payment, get that fourplex, put some tenants in there, live in one of the units, rent free and build your real estate business, right?

(17:21) And so now you have income and now you can really focus on selling houses and for your clients, finding and selling and buying houses for your clients, but your income needs are met.

Marcus Norman
(17:32) Yeah. Let the, you let your income meet, get met first before you go buy the Porsche, right? Cause like you’re going to get into a point where like, you know, that it’s going to be a slow period.

(17:44) It’s going to be winter. Your taxes are going to be due all this stuff. And you’re going to be hurting and you’re gonna be stressed.

(17:49) And that’s why most realtors get out of the business. And so if you have everything met, like you’re going to be fine. And then you can think about expanding your business and growing, maybe building a team, maybe hiring an assistant, making your job, giving better service to your clients and making your job less stressful and less demanding.

Mattias
(18:09) But anyway, enough about that. I want to hear more about where, so how many times did you do that before you moved on? Cause I know you, you got into ATMs and now you have another venture that you’re in.

Marcus Norman
(18:19) So once I got the, thank you for that. And once I, great question. Once I got into the three plex, the duplex, I had maxed out the full utility of my VA loan, but I was still sitting on cash.

(18:33) And so then, you know, I literally would a Google search. I said, I have this much money. What can I do with this much money?

(18:40) And the first thing that popped up on Google was ATM, started ATM business. And so I was like ATM business.

(18:47) So again, my mind is, is expanded. I start, I buy some books, join some Facebook groups and get around some really smart people. And, you know, I remember my girlfriend at the time, I was talking to her at the time.

(19:02) And today I laugh about it because I had told her like, hey, what do you think about ATM business? And she was like, you know, she was like, whatever, you know, it’s a thing, but don’t banks own ATMs?

(19:14) And so I talked to her like on a Tuesday this month and next month I had my first ATM placed in a location and she was just blown away because she was, she never met someone that worked that fast, right?

(19:28) But when I learned something that works, I’m, I’m, I’m taking off. You don’t want to get caught up in the famous Robert Kiyosaki analysis paralysis or the John Maxwell, right?

(19:41) Just the law of the lid. You don’t want to get stuck as a CEO. You don’t want to get stuck as a leader or a agent or anything.

(19:48) You want to do some research enough to be dangerous and then go, just go, figure it out, you know, jump, jump off and go for it.

Mattias
(19:58) It’s a hard step to take. I know a lot of people struggle with that with investment properties as well. Part of the reason I think that the house hacking thing can kind of be like a better stepping stone because like, I’m sure once you had saw the success, okay, I can cover this mortgage by my own.

(20:12) I can, I can do this. I can run out the rooms. Now that you’ve rented out the rooms, you’re like, oh, well this works.

(20:18) Like, so like, let me get another one. I’m not worried about this first one running out because I know I already did. And it’s just a nice way that you know you can cover yourself and it’s kind of maybe a baby step into this world.

(20:29) But tell me a little bit about the nuts and bolts of the ATM business. So do you have to pay a rent in the places that you place them?

Marcus Norman
(20:38) Absolutely not. You absolutely don’t have to pay any rent and it’s the art of the deal. So this is where the power of working in sales, because I had worked in sales and person to person and business to business, I was familiar with contracts and I was familiar with negotiating.

(20:54) And so most businesses, you walk in, it’s not like life insurance, right? If I say to you and your family, say, hey, let’s talk life insurance. I want to sell you a policy or I want to talk about your life insurance needs.

(21:06) You want to see graphs, you want to see charts, you want to see pie graphs. But if I say to you, the business owner who owns a barbershop, and I say, I’d like to place an ATM here, you already have the mechanics of how this will work in your head already. And that alleviates the most problems in sales because that means I don’t have to explain anything to you.

(21:20) I just say ATM and you instantly. You know what that is.

(21:29) You know what that is. You know exactly what I’m talking about. And the next question usually that comes out of my clients’ mouth is, how much is my split? And that’s, it really sells itself.

Mattias
(21:40) So it was the easiest thing. They would get a split from whatever the cash is withdrawn in. I mean, how does that work?

(21:45) How do you get paid?

Marcus Norman
(21:47) Absolutely. So the ATM is a unique business opportunity. So you get paid from the fees that are collected.

(21:52) So you initially have to prime the pump and that’s the barrier to entry. So once you find the ATM, you buy the ATM and you purchase it.

(22:03) Typically if I buy ATMs brand new, so I don’t buy any used, that’s how you get messed up. And so a new ATM, depending on the model can range anywhere from 2000 to $4,500 depending on the features you want in that ATM.

(22:21) And then when you get the ATM, you have to know how to program it because they don’t come programmed. And so you have to tell the ATM what the nomination is going to dispense, what the fees are gonna be, and you have to program it and update it and get it ready.

(22:34) Once you’ve done that, then it’s just finding places to put them. And again, you walk into an established business, been operating for several years. I would like to place an ATM here and I think we could work really well together.

(22:48) And there’s some profit sharing in this and the business owners, they just eat it up all day. And what we’re splitting is that fee that’s collected. And then you can branch off.

(23:00) I don’t do this, but I know other vendors who do where you can actually charge a premium for advertising. So again, you can customize these ATMs when you order them. Some ATMs, you may or may not have seen them, have like little billboards on top of them where it says, you know, buy cryptocurrency here or check out Joe’s Fat Burgers over here.

(23:21) You can actually charge those businesses. Hey, I have these many ATMs for a fee. I’ll place a sign or a digital screen on top of my ATMs to advertise your business.

(23:33) And they pay you a fee every month. So an ATM is really a money making machine. And it makes sense why banks do it, right?

Mattias
(23:43) Awesome. So what’s your typical, like from the investment side of the point, what’s your typical payoff timeframe? Like when does it pay itself off from purchase to how many years typically you’re running?

(23:57) I know it probably varies by location, but.

Marcus Norman
(24:01) So the payoff to get the money back, usually if I can, I project to get my money back in less than a year. That’s pretty good. Also too, I buy my ATMs cash.

(24:10) So there’s no borrowed debt on this money. And so typically day one of the first transaction, I have already started making my money back. And so I take a lot of the grunt work up front.

(24:26) And so again, you have to have the cash to buy the machine, then you program the machine, and then you have to have cash to fill it, right? So I’m putting my cash in these machines that’s gonna be recycled to me. And so that money, you have to prime the pump at least once, right?

(24:42) And that’s why most people don’t do it because it can be expensive if you don’t have a mind for it, and if you don’t see it for an investment that it is. And so I’m buying these machines for cash, I’m

placing them, so I’m going door knocking, finding businesses, and then I’m putting four to $5,000 in these machines. And that can be a tall order for the average person.

(25:04) But if you, I hear all, I see, we all see the stupid numbers people put up all day, right? They want some money from the Powerball, they’re gambling. They won, you know, they got a huge tax refund, or they got, they were on unemployment.

(25:17) All that money circulating in the US economy, and you didn’t tap into anything passive. I mean, if I was getting $800 a week, you’d be sure I’d be the biggest ATM operator on this side of the coast. Because it was just money, it was stupid money just circulating.

(25:34) So take that money, whatever it is, take that money, that extra money, that tax refund you got last year, save it up and buy an ATM and place it. And again, less than a year, right? And that’s based off of the fee.

(25:47) So what I do is I, when I market to an area, when I’m going door to door, I look at where’s the nearest ATM, and I find that financial institution, and then I do a transaction to see what the fee is. And based off of that, that gives me an idea of what I can charge for the area. And I go with all that data to the business owner.

(26:09) And I say, I’m thinking we can charge anywhere if the nearest ATM is five miles away, and they’re charging $4.50. I can say, we can charge all the way up to $4 and get away with it and still be very profitable. And I offer my business owners percentages versus a flat rate.

(26:27) Sure. The big gurus will try and tell you, offer them a flat rate, give them 50 cents, give them 75 cents. I give percentages that way. So when the local fee changes, if there are changes in the area and the fee goes up at the local bank to let’s say $5 or something crazy, I can just switch the fee and the business owner automatically makes more money.

(26:47) And I don’t have to recalculate how much it’s split is.

Mattias
(26:50) Yeah. That’s interesting. What would you say, I know that the crypto blew up of the pandemic and maybe is kind of coming back right now with the halving.

(27:03) What kind of transition did you see of like your profits being crypto based? Cause you can buy Bitcoin. Can you buy other things on your ATMs?

Marcus Norman
(27:12) You can buy crypto on ATMs. You can buy Bitcoin on ATMs. You can also sell them on the ATM.

(27:18) And so the profits, I tested it out with one ATM in my market and the market I’m in isn’t sophisticated enough. So I wasn’t getting a whole lot of traction from it. I wasn’t getting a whole lot of volume from it.

(27:32) I had several inquiries, they paid me out and it just wasn’t worthwhile just because of the area I was in. I just chalked it up to say, hey, you know what this demographic isn’t, it’s not there, right?

(27:45) Versus if I was in Washington DC, right? Or as I was in Silicon Valley, that the concept of cryptocurrency is more prevalent. Typically people don’t invest where they don’t understand.

(27:56) And if you’re buying Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, thinking you’re gonna make a fortune, but you don’t understand how it works or how to make money or how to acquire it or how to maintain it, you’re gonna mess yourself up. You’re gonna forget your passwords. You’re gonna lock yourself out.

(28:07) You’re gonna spend a lot of money for nothing. And then you’re just locked out of all this money that you spent.

Mattias
(28:16) So in other words, you haven’t really gone all in on that side of the business. It could work with some places, but it hasn’t worked well for you and your location.

Marcus Norman
(28:25) Correct, correct. It hasn’t worked. This is a poor demographic here. This is a poor kind of clientele. Not very wealthy, affluent people here.

Mattias
(28:36) Yeah, and I’d be curious if there’s any data on that, like nationally, if there were more purchases, if that has increased basically. Because I mean, it was very popular for a while and then it crashed and everybody was like, it’s a scam, it’s never gonna, I mean, there were scams. It’s never coming back, et cetera.

(28:54) But I could see there being some rallying here again in the next few months.

Marcus Norman
(29:01) I think so. The other operators I’ve seen in my area doing it, they’re paying the location. So they’re giving the business owners 200, 300, $400 a month just to place their Bitcoin ATM there.

(29:15) I don’t see how you can make any money giving away that kind of money. So again, maybe it’s my ignorance. I tend to lean towards Berkshire Warren Buffett’s philosophy.

(29:27) If I don’t understand how it makes money, I don’t invest.

Mattias
(29:30) No, it’s brilliant. Absolutely, 100%. That’s what you should be doing.

(29:35) Yeah, and yeah, it’s not for everybody and it’ll be curious to see how the next cycle goes. But yeah, moving on from that. So now you were into ATMs for a while.

(29:48) Now, do you still purchase them or you’ve kind of moved on because you now are in the dispensary business?

Marcus Norman
(29:52) So I still have them. I’m not acquiring new locations at the moment. So I’ve just kind of plateaued and just left that business to operate on its own.

(30:02) So I still have them. I have a portfolio of about 13 ATMs that I still own and maintain. But yes, I’ve graduated to now cannabis and the cannabis industry and investing, small business investing.

(30:16) So that venture has, it’s been bearing fruit and it’s been a learning experience for sure because even though I come from the Caribbean, right, Ganja, I never messed with it. I never played with it growing up.

(30:33) And so it was a lot to learn and also the regulations are changing around the dispensing of cannabis. And so I found a company that I now partner with and I’m a shareholder in that they went back in time but they brought something back from the past and made it more modern.

(30:54) And they utilize vending machines to dispense the cannabis. And so through the vending machines, they incorporated a bit cryptocurrency and a blockchain technology.

(31:04) And so these are touchless, cashless vending machines that have the ability to verify your age and dispense cannabis products to you.

Mattias
(31:16) That’s interesting. Very. Yeah, I mean, I know that there’s, so the age verification is through the blockchain or do they have some sort of scan with their ID?

Marcus Norman
(31:28) Great question, very great question. So one, you have to show proof of ID. Two, there’s a camera on the vending machine.

(31:36) So if the ID that you upload doesn’t match what we’re looking at at the camera, it won’t dispense. Also too, you have to have a profile. If you’ve ever gone to a website to purchase cannabis or hemp-based products, there’s a little pop-up on the screen that says, are you 21?

(31:53) You click yes, and it moves you on. But this company that I partner with has taken it a step further. Yes, you have to verify, you have to upload your name, email address, phone number and address and a back and front picture ID, government ID.

(32:09) And you have to have a profile. If you do not have a profile, it will not dispense to you. And that information is kept on the blockchain.

(32:16) So it’s kept secure, but it is utilized every single time. When you make a purchase, I know exactly who made that purchase, right? And we got you on camera.

(32:28) So there’s no, and people have tried. Over the years, I’ve been owning and operating these machines. People have tried.

(32:35) People have tried to come and go on Google and say, you dispense my 15-year-old son, this cannabis, this weed. And I’ll test, I’ll challenge the lady. I said, show me proof that we dispense this product.

(32:48) And the lady will submit, oh, well, he has a credit card. I said, that’s not how the machine works.

(32:59) Or I give him cash. Well, the machine doesn’t take cash. And we just, every time we knock them down, it’s super easy.

Mattias
(33:05) Now, so do you have to pay with blockchain too? Or is there also like just connected to a Apple wallet or whatever?

Marcus Norman
(33:11) So it can be connected to an Apple wallet. That’s how we’ve been accepting them thus far. And again, the data is kept on the blockchain.

(33:18) So the blockchain is primarily used to categorize the different strains of cannabis, right? So you know exactly what you’re putting in your

body.

(33:27) You know where it came from. The bigger thing is the testing, the lab results. Every product that the machine dispenses, you can pull up on the, cause it has a digital touchscreen right there on the vending machine where you can actually read what’s in this product.

(33:42) And it’s most recent lab tests to know, does it have pesticides? Does it have harmful metals and chemicals in it? You know exactly what you’re putting in your body before it dispenses.

(33:52) All of that is provided to you via the blockchain. So again, we know every product in the machine. We know where it came from, who makes it, the manufacturer date, the label date, the expiration date, from soup to nuts.

(34:04) And so this company is really far ahead of its time as far as technology goes. The owner, the founder of this company, he has a master’s in cybersecurity.

(34:16) So it was a really, it made sense for me to not invest with him.

Mattias
(34:20) Yeah, that’s really fascinating. Cause I think that’s something that people don’t, most people don’t, unless they really went down the rabbit hole of crypto, they don’t understand that there’s so many applications to it, not just money.

(34:32) And what you’re talking about is a great example of just this data, you know, on a ledger. And that’s, it’s just using, you know, non, we’re not using Amazon to host that data.

(34:45) We’re having it on this blockchain. And I think like one of the, so there’s a couple of interesting applications where you can do this with. Like, so there’s, I think a digital ID would be fantastic.

(34:55) So you’re kind of doing that, but like, I’m thinking like government. And again, if I’m going to have a digital ID, I’d rather have it be on something like a blockchain than on something like Amazon, the servers.

(35:08) And then that would allow for, so you could do, you could release certain data, but not release all the data. So for example, if you wanted to just give your name and your year of birth from your ID, from your digital ID, that company could achieve that without having to see your, you know, your driver’s license or your home address.

(35:28) If that information is not needed, we could just give part of that information. So I think there’s a lot of possibilities with this kind of blockchain technology. And that’s a really fascinating example of one.

Marcus Norman
(35:43) It is. And thank you for bringing it up. I’m truly excited where it has many applications. Blockchain technology has many applications.

(35:52) And like I said, I had to do a lot of research and reading to understand what is the significance between blockchain, crypto, and cannabis. And I had to study a little bit, all three, to have a clearer understanding of why he even did this.

(36:07) Because it didn’t make sense to me. But then, like you said, there’s so many applications. Another application that I hear about often that’s coming down the pipeline is the use of blockchain technology for the buying and selling of real estate.

(36:19) Imagine where you can go on Zillow, look at an investment property, buy it, close on it, docu-sign all the documents, apply for financing, and the house is yours.

(36:30) We’re gonna mail you the keys on this date at this time. The house is yours. Here’s your closing date. Here’s your closing documents. The bank, your finance through, you already applied, got approved, credit score, everything.

(36:40) You uploaded your documents to them. Here’s your closing. And all of that can be recorded on the blockchain. So now there’s a categorized list of all the owners over the course of these many years of who owned this building.

(36:55) And you never stepped foot in the building.

Mattias
(36:57) Yeah, and even before that point, I think the fact that we have to sign with ink for most bank loans is so archaic, right? Why do they need us to have a pen to the paper?

(37:08) So I’ve done digital notaries, which we’re kind of getting there. That was a really interesting process where it was basically exactly the same as sitting with somebody. You had to show your ID. You had to kind of scan it.

(37:21) You took a picture of it. But you could enhance that with the blockchain. And you could just verify that it’s you who was there signing.

(37:33) And therefore, you could just do it with DocuSign through some sort of verification process that could be done through the blockchain. So yeah, it’s interesting. It’s gonna be fascinating to see how it all develops and where it’s all applied.

Marcus Norman
(37:48) It will be, it will be. Like you said, some biometric, you can scan my face, my thumbprint, whatever. It’s recorded on the blockchain.

(37:55) I DocuSigned it. How can you now challenge that that’s not me? Because it verified me through my biometrics. No one has my eyeball, right?

(38:04) No one has my- And again, you don’t wanna give that to anybody. That’s why it’s better to be on this decentralized platform.

(38:12) You don’t wanna just be like, here, Amazon, I know you know everything about me anyway. Here, Google, I know you know everything about me anyway, but here’s my fingerprints yet.

Mattias
(38:20) Like- Absolutely, 1000% true.

Marcus Norman
(38:26) So- Well, this is, so this company, is it just Virginia based, this dispensary company? Or is it all across the country where it’s legal?

Mattias
(38:31) So according to the Farm Bill, you can sell cannabis virtually according to the Farm Bill, virtually. And then selling it locally, your state has to allow it. But you can sell to anyone in the 50 continental states of the United States via the Farm Bill.

(38:52) That’s why you see, that’s why I said online, when you go to the big players, CBD, FX, Five, all the major players in the cannabis space, when you go to the website, they can sell it to you anywhere. You can buy on their website and they’ll make, cause they’re shipping it directly to your house, right?

(39:09) Right. So that’s in compliance with the Farm Bill. And the company also has that. They have an online platform where you can buy all the same products in the vending machines online.

(39:19) The vending machines is just another way, another revenue stream that the company makes money. And so as an investor, as a shareholder, they had a unique opportunity where I gave them a lump sum of money.

(39:33) And they said, here’s your opportunity for you to make your money back, your investment back. And that’s rare, right? When you’re buying shares in a company, it’s a rare opportunity where day one, you can start earning your money back until on this privately owned company.

Marcus Norman
(39:50) Oh, so you’re not even, so it’s not necessarily like you’re just buying the machine, you’re kind of investing in the company to get the ability to place a machine somewhere.

Mattias
(40:02) Absolutely. Absolutely, so multi-leveled like that, because typically when you invest in a company, a private company, it may be five, it may be six, it may be 10 years before you get that investment back through several liquidation methods.

(40:18) But when I saw that, it was almost a no brainer. But again, it took time, right? I had to wait, I had to see the launch, I had to see how the company was doing, I had to see, make sure there was some healthy growth.

(40:30) And this wasn’t just a concept, this wasn’t just an idea. And so I waited, I strategically waited until the company deployed its first machine, and then I invested the large lump sum.

Marcus Norman
(40:41) Okay, so now you told me you have three of these, is that correct?

Mattias
(40:46) Just got my third location, yes, sir.

Marcus Norman
(40:49) That’s amazing, and I know Virginia just, this year, right, is the first year that could be sold in Virginia?

Mattias
(40:56) No, so I’ve had the first one, I’ve had for, this is my third year in business with the first vending machine in Virginia, yeah.

Marcus Norman
(41:04) So THC too, or?

Mattias
(41:08) Yes, sir.

Marcus Norman
(41:09) Interesting, I didn’t know that, okay.

Mattias
(41:09) Yes, sir, long is in accordance with the Farm Bill, which is 0.03% of milligrams.

(41:19) As long as they fall within that criteria, that dosage, that milligram dosage, you can sell THC products.

(41:26) And so CBD, the products I have in the vending machine have CBD only, and they have CBD with THC.

(41:35) And again, the THC is less than the 0.03%, so I can sell it.

Marcus Norman
(41:41) Okay, but did it not become something past this year, or, it didn’t pass this year, but it was decriminalized a few years ago, if I’m remembering correctly, and then this year was the first year that it was, I thought something was changing, but maybe it got, so maybe something changed.

(41:59) Because again, this happened like, I don’t know, maybe it’s like three years ago where it was announced.

Mattias
(42:04) There has been changes, but we always stayed compliant with those changes. And so there were changes to it, but because, again, this is why I said the company was ahead of its time.

(42:16) We don’t sell anything greater than 10 milligrams, right?

(42:19) And so because we’ve always sold low THC concentrated products, when those changes would occur, it never affected me.

(42:28) So when they would come out with new regulations or new stipulations as to the dosage or how much THC you could sell, can you grow it in your backyard, X, Y, Z, X, Y, Z, nothing changed with me.

(42:40) It didn’t matter, it never affected me because the company was already ahead, and they only did business with products that were way below the spectrum, because that was never their focus.

(42:51) There was never their focus to sell these.

(42:55) The company’s focus was never to get you high, it was to get you better.

Marcus Norman
(42:59) Gotcha. And so the company always kept that in the forefront. So any of the changes, they have been products that have gone offline and we no longer offer them, but business continued to run.

(43:13) The vending machine never went out of business. I just shifted the products.

Mattias
(43:17) Interesting. So now logistically, do you fill them or is that taken care of by the company as well?

Marcus Norman
(43:24) Logistically, I fill them. So I manage them, I can see them, I can operate them. I fill them currently.

(43:33) And again, that’s just temporary, that’s for now, right? Later on, as I continue to grow, as I continue to expand and I wanna pursue other things, then I’ll hire someone.

(43:43) But for now, I fill them. It doesn’t take much time at all.

Mattias
(43:47) So they ship it to you or to wherever you want it to be shipped to and then you go and fill?

Marcus Norman
(43:52) Correct.

Mattias
(43:52) Okay, interesting. And obviously it’s doing well, if you’ve moved on to three, you’re happy with the investment?

Marcus Norman
(44:00) I’m very happy with the investment. I’m very happy with the investment. I’m very happy with the founders and the owners.

(44:07) I have his personal cell, he has mine. And the think on this man and the brains on this gentleman and his team is just incredible. And they have a legal department that keeps me on point.

(44:22) So if I’m doing something crazy or I have a crazy idea, the owner and his team will talk about it and we’ll work through it. And it’s been a phenomenal ride just to learn and grow in that area, yeah.

Mattias
(44:38) That’s it. I mean, it sounds like a great company. Do you also then pay a percentage to where have you placed them to the business?

(44:47) Or is that similar to the ATM?

Marcus Norman
(44:49) I do. So the businesses I have them in, they wanted a percentage or they wanted a flat rate. I offered them the percentages.

(44:58) They wanted a flat rate. So I paid a flat rate just out of happenstance. But it’s like when you hear someone making a bad deal, you don’t argue, right?

(45:03) It’s like, I’m not gonna argue with you, right? I’m trying to do right by you by offering you a percentage, right? Because if I sell $1,000 worth of products and I’m offering you and you just want your flat rate of $100, you missed out on $800 or $900, right?

(45:29) That you could have gotten more because if you had taken a percentage, you would have made more. But they’re dead set on this flat rate because they want predictable income, right? They want to do their projections and their math.

(45:41) Hey, when you hear someone make you a bad deal, just take it, just let them learn, right? So, hey, I’ll take it.

Mattias
(45:49) Well, I mean, that’s like something that I think a lot of people do, right? They want that steady income, that monthly revenue as opposed to the risky.

(45:56) It may not be that great, but it could also be a lot more. And that’s a very common thing, right? Like you want that consistent paycheck, you want that consistency, you want that stability, but you’re really leaving stuff on the table.

Marcus Norman
(46:12) Absolutely, know thyself, know what type of investor you are, right? Which one of the four quadrants do you fall into in the Robert Kiyosaki quadrant?

Mattias
(46:21) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of books, do you got a favorite book, one that you would say is fundamental or one that you really enjoy reading now? Or yeah, any kind of book that you would recommend to people?

Marcus Norman
(46:33) Two books, two books that I am currently reading now and they were the most unsuspecting books. I don’t wanna be cliche and say Rich Dad Poor Dad, I’ve mentioned him enough times.

(46:44) The first book that provided me tremendous insight was the book by Curtis Jackson, 50 Cent, known as 50 Cent, the rapper. It’s called Hustle Harder and Hustle Smarter.

(46:53) And he’s, if you know anything about him, he was a rap artist who previously was shot, I think like six, seven, nine times, became a very hit mogul and partnered with Eminem and Dr. Dre and became a rapper.

(47:12) But he ventured off, he quickly realized that music is a business. And he wrote a book about his mindset and his relation and his business thinking. And one of the things that people know or remember is Vitamin Water.

(47:28) 50 Cent, Curtis Jackson was an investor, he was the first investor in Vitamin Water. And that paid him tremendous amount of money when he bought that company and then when they liquidated and sold to Coca-Cola.

(47:42) And then the second book I would recommend is another one by the artist, the singer is Jason Derulo. And his book is Sing Your Name Out Loud. And so those are two books that you wouldn’t suspect to be business books, but they’re very, these two gentlemen are very business minded.

(48:03) Jason Derulo talks about in his book, one of his most successful business ventures isn’t his music, it’s a car wash that he owns. And so that shocked the bejesus out of me.

(48:17) And so if you’re looking for something out of the box, some out of the box thinking by people you would never expect to be entrepreneurs and business owners, read those two books.

Mattias
(48:26) That’s cool, Evan. That’s definitely fresh, I haven’t heard those. That’s really interesting.

(48:31) I know one guy that Shaquille O’Neal, I know that he had the whole, his story was what somebody, his accountant or somebody told him he was gonna be another broke athlete after he went out and bought cars with his first check or something. And man, that guy has done a lot since. He really took that to heart.

(48:48) Didn’t he get an honorary PhD too?

Marcus Norman
(48:52) He did, he did.

Mattias
(48:54) And he’s one of the wealthier NBA players, one of the wealthiest NBA players today just because someone said the wrong thing to him at the right time.

Marcus Norman
(49:06) Sometimes you need that negative. Sometimes you need that negative. I mean, so school was never, I was never really cut out for school.

(49:12) And I think part of that is.

Mattias
(49:14) Same, same.

Marcus Norman
(49:15) I mean, this might be a common thing with entrepreneurs, but I think part of it was like, I just wanna do my own thing. I don’t really see the point in this.

(49:22) It’s not really interesting to me. I wanna pursue what I’m finding interesting.

(49:27) But, and my dad’s a professor. So that kind of clashes a little bit, right? And at one point, but to his credit, he was like, he’s like, you know what, Matias?

(49:38) Not

everybody needs to graduate high school.

(49:42) I agree.

Mattias
(49:42) Like he was, he’s gonna be okay with me dropping out. And that kind of gave me a kick in the pants.

(49:49) I was like, you know what?

(49:51) That, I’m not gonna take that L. I’m gonna work harder. And I, you know, I wasn’t failing.

(49:58) I was just not thriving and not enjoying it.

(50:02) So went on to graduate college and et cetera.

(50:05) But like, yeah. So it’s, sometimes you need that. Sometimes you need that like negative reinforcement to kick you in the pants and kind of get you to like refocus on what’s important.

Marcus Norman
(50:14) Absolutely. I’ve said the same thing. I said, whoever I marry, they’re gonna have to be the academic because I’m not gonna be the one to push our kids to get all straight A’s and go to college and go rack up all this student loan debt.

(50:30) I’m not gonna be that parent. And so whoever I marry, they’re gonna have to be the academic because if my child brings me home, you know, a B, I’m happy with that.

(50:39) A minus, I’m happy with that. They don’t have to bring me, you know, straight A, A plus all the time. Because, you know, so yeah, I’m with you. I’m with you on that.

Mattias
(50:48) I think it’s a balanced, like trying to find that, like, yeah, I think Robert Kiyosaki talks about this too. It’s just like, it’s kind of two different worlds and just kind of giving them information on both sides so they can decide where they wanna go and kind of what suits them the best because I think there are people that, you know, may never really wanna be an entrepreneur and that’s fine too.

(51:11) So I think it’s just, you gotta also get that influence though, I think, from this side of the spectrum.

Marcus Norman
(51:19) Absolutely. You need both. You need to, I think all parents do it, right?

(51:23) They try to expose their children to everything, right? Try some soccer, try some basketball, try some accounting, try some welding, try some of this, try some of that so you can find what it is you enjoy. I think those are the best parents, the parents that just, you know, try it all.

(51:36) Go nuts, try it all. If I can afford it, better yet, if it’s free, go ahead, why not do it, you know? I grew up in a high school where the high school had a academic side and had a trade school side.

(51:53) So when you apply to this high school, they literally ask you out the gate, what side do you wanna be on? What side does your child want to be on? Does he want to be an academic?

(52:00) And take the science, the health, the math, the English, and you’re gonna take that, you take those basics regardless of which side you choose. You’re gonna take your math, you’re gonna take your English, but the focus is not on academia.

(52:16) If your child says he wants to be a barber or a welder or a tradesman or a craftsman or a skilled professional. So that was powerful for me.

Mattias
(52:26) Well, and I think, you know, like a lot of people feel like they have to go through college in the US and then end up doing something like that. They end up having a concrete business, end up framing, you know, end up doing something that wasn’t, they don’t need the college.

(52:41) And I think that like, you know, there’s more to college than just the academics, but you got to definitely keep that, those student loans in mind, like your ROI on what you’re getting.

(52:54) You’re not just, a four-year resort is not the purpose of college. And like, you know, if you have no idea what you’re gonna be doing, you may think about doing something else for a while until you figure out and figure out if college is actually worth pursuing, but.

Marcus Norman
(53:10) Before we sign on that line, yeah, absolutely.

(53:13) Yeah.

Mattias
(53:13) Absolutely.

Marcus Norman
(53:15) Well, this has been an awesome conversation. Super glad you came on, man. Yeah, I don’t think I expected to get into crypto, but we covered a lot, man. We covered real estate, crypto, cannabis, ATMs. I mean, the world’s your oyster if you really, like, I think one of the great things about you is that you seem to like your hobby, I’m sure you might have other hobbies as well, but one of your hobbies is like, how do I maximize? Like, how do I use this money well?

(53:45) Like, you get interested in something and you go after it and learn something new. You’re not afraid to get after it and learn something new. And it’s been, you’re not, that’s all you do now.

(54:01) You’re not employed, right? You’re self-employed.

Marcus Norman
(54:04) Correct. The greatest gift my parents gave to me, it wasn’t wealth, it wasn’t money. It wasn’t any, you know, stock plan or pension or life insurance, retirement or anything.

(54:16) It was the ability to critically think, right? That’s a skill. That’s an actual skill. And if you can give a person the ability to critically think, break something down to its finest points and put it together piece by piece in a way that it makes sense to them, that’s a powerful tool. And you can literally take that person and drop them in the middle of the desert and they’ll be able to build something because they can think on their feet.

(54:45) And so that was one of the one blessing out of many that my parents bestowed upon me is just think about it. Think about it for a second and does it make sense? And then put it together slowly in your pace until it does make sense to you.

Mattias
(55:03) That’s powerful. I love it. Yeah, because I mean, if industries change, if you, for some reason, we’re not using ATMs anymore or whatever, like you’re good because you’ve got that still and you’re gonna find something else and you’ve already made your money back.

(55:18) So, right? I mean, that’s the security, right? Like you have the security to, you know business now, you know you could pursue something new in a changing environment and that’s great.

(55:34) That’s powerful.

Marcus Norman
(55:35) For sure.

Mattias
(55:36) So Marcus, thank you so much, man. Thanks for being on here.

Marcus Norman
(55:40) Thank you for having me. It’s a great show. Thanks for listening to the Wealthy Investor Podcast where we talk about wealth and holistic health. If you enjoy our content, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to hear new episodes every Thursday. If you really like our content, you can follow us on social media at The WELLthy Investor, wealthy spelled W-E-L-L-T-H-Y.