Secrets to Building Legacy Wealth with Powerful Insights from Tabatha Thorell

Transcript

(00:00) Mattias Clymer: Welcome back to The Wealthy Investor. Today, Erica had a podcast recording that she did by herself, and I am doing this podcast recording by myself.

So ah by the time you’ve heard this, you’ve already heard the Erica alone debut. I’m sure she killed it. I’m excited to hear it.

But today I spoke with Tabitha Thorell out of Nebraska. Her and her husband had been investing for a while. It’s a really interesting story. She’s a coach, and she is creating this legacy wealth project where she wants a mastermind of people that will kind of come together to learn the ropes and get going with their property investing, push past the fear, push past whatever limitations you may have to get the wealth growing.

A lot of people talk about that they want to have a property, they want to invest in real estate, but they never do. And there’s usually something that’s stopping you, probably fear, ultimately.

I know money is not always abundant in everybody’s life, but ah that is not really something that’s going to completely stop you. There are ways, and part of it is definitely mindset.

She also wants to help people pass on the legacy to their kids. And I think that’s a really important thing that often is overlooked when we’re talking about, you know, creating a better life for our kids.

I hear that kind of thing all the time, but I don’t really hear people worried as much about the bad that comes with it. And I think that I’ve definitely, you know, through my years, have seen people that have not always benefited really from having wealth as a second generation or third generation person.

I think that it can actually kind of hinder development if it’s not done sustainably. So I think money has a lot of power, and with a lot of power comes a lot of responsibility—not to get too cliche.

I have heard that if you were to give money to a charity, if you were to just drop a lot of money into a charity without any kind of parameters, just go run with it, you could actually run that charity into the ground. It’s kind of a weird way of thinking, but it might be similar to somebody who is—you hear the stories about the athletes that come into a lot of money and then their career is over.

And they had never learned how to be financially literate or how to manage money. And they came maybe from a poor background where they were never taught that. And then all their money’s gone, or the people that win the lottery and don’t know what to do with their wealth.

You definitely have a responsibility as you create the legacy for your kids to help make sure that they are able to, you know, the financial literacy is part of it too, you know, not run out, not to live a balanced life. What is balanced?

But to live a way that, you know, they’re growing more than they’re losing, that the money isn’t just going away, that they’re building. I’ll say that they have to be into real estate or investing necessarily, but I think living sustainably is a key piece. And ultimately, living a fulfilled life, whatever gives them passion, whatever gives them joy, the goal would be for the money to just enable them to get there, maybe faster, maybe give them a little bit of a head start if whatever they’re into.

But that they would then run with it and make it their own thing. That’s one of the things I’ve definitely struggled with.

One interesting thing she talked about was actually creating a mastermind, where the kids also would have their own kind of mastermind so that the kids would have a similar line of thought that we are trying to instill in ourselves.

Your net worth is your network. The people that you are surrounding yourself with really have a big impact on your life. And that’s obviously true with your kids as well. And that is true for limiting beliefs and finances just as much as it is if they’re going to be party animals and promiscuous as teenagers.

So really interesting food for thought. I hope you enjoy Tabitha on The Wealthy Investor.

(00:00) Mattias Clymer: Welcome back to The Wealthy Investor. We are here with Tabitha Thorell. Tabatha, thank you for joining us. You are based out of Nebraska.

(00:08) Tabatha Thorell: Yes, yes I am.

(00:09) Mattias Clymer: And you said you’ve been investing for about 20 years now. Can you tell us a little bit about your investing journey?

(00:15) Tabatha Thorell: Yes. Well, thank you so much, Matias, for having me on your podcast.

It’s my honor to come and share with your audience. I started 20 years ago, so you know when I was two, I started, right? No, I’m just kidding. My husband and I started when we were in college. We weren’t married at the time.

My husband had a previous experience because his dad started rental properties. When my husband was about 15 or 16 years old, he bought his first income property, and my husband helped him renovate it and manage it.

(00:43) Mattias Clymer: Wow.

(00:47) Tabatha Thorell: And so when he was in college, he was like, “Hey, Tab, I just want to buy a house and live in the basement and rent out the top. Would you help me design it and stuff?” And I’m like, “Oh yeah, awesome. Let’s do this.” You know, this was back in 2004.

(01:02) Mattias Clymer: Before the term house hacking was out.

(01:02) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah, yes. Well, that’s kind of when the first reality show of flipping came out. Back then they were still more like documentaries. And so we’d watch those, and I’m like, “Of course, let’s do this. You know, it’s gonna be just like the show.”

(01:14) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(01:19) Tabatha Thorell: But we just loved to take old things and make them new as well. So we bought this big old house, it had nine layers of wallpaper. And we made it all pretty.

We put chair rails and crown molding. We just made this old house new again. We put renters in it. My husband lived in the basement, and he was able to essentially live rent-free and have some cash flow from that investment.

(01:45) Mattias Clymer: Awesome.

(01:50) Tabatha Thorell: I remember after the first year, the tenants moved out, and we were assessing the property. The chair rail was broken, and there were holes in the wall. And I was like, “You know, our pretty house.”

But we learned early on that we still wanted to make the houses nice because I think everyone deserves to live in a nice home, no matter what. So if we were going to provide affordable housing for somebody, we still wanted it to be nice, but maybe take it back a notch.

(02:24) Mattias Clymer: Sure.

(02:24) Tabatha Thorell: It was just a learning curve for us. That was the beginning. I was 19, he was 21. Within that next year, he bought his second property, and we were just kind of off to the races.

He wanted to live rent-free, but something that your audience needs to know is that we saw plans of getting married, and we knew our jobs were not going to be with a corporation.

We were going to be some sort of entrepreneurs. My husband’s family were farmers. He was also getting his construction management degree. So whether he was going to be a contractor or a farmer, or if I was going to work from home as a real estate agent or have my own business, I knew that there was going to be no retirement plan for us.

(03:06) Mattias Clymer: Right.

(03:06) Tabatha Thorell: So we did it as a way early on. We saw that when we’re older, this is going to help us retire early, help with the finances when things get tough. We saw it as another bucket.

There were two reasons why we got started. And I think that’s important for people to realize because whatever reason you want to invest in something, you have to look at the why.

(03:32) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(03:31) Tabatha Thorell: Like, why are you doing this? And then you have to stay hold of that because when it gets hard, you really do have to look at why you started in the first place.

(03:42) Mattias Clymer: Yeah, no, absolutely. Because I would imagine those tenants moving out and destroying things after you put your heart into your first thing—you’re probably super excited about it, super energetic—that’s probably hard.

(03:52) Tabatha Thorell: Yes.

(03:54) Mattias Clymer: Our first property was our first house. And I recently toured it, we’ve had the same tenants in it. It’s been lived in hard. Especially your first house—you know, we got married and bought it right at the same time.

(04:03) Tabatha Thorell: Yes.

(04:08) Mattias Clymer: It’s hard to see. But you have to realize everything’s fixable. In the big picture, keep the “why” in mind, exactly what you’re saying.

**(04:13)

Tabatha Thorell:** Yep.

(04:16) Mattias Clymer: It’s the small potatoes for the reason you’re doing all this stuff.

(04:20) Tabatha Thorell: Yes, yes.

(04:22) Mattias Clymer: Cool. So then you all just kind of kept accumulating single families. What else have you invested in?

(04:29) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah. So we got married, had some kids, bought some more properties. Single family is where our sweet spot is just because of where we live. The return on investment is so high that it’s kind of like, for us, it’s a no-brainer.

His dad has a lot of single-family homes as well. For the first 10 years of our marriage, he helped manage those and work on those while we were accumulating, and he farmed as well.

(04:49) Mattias Clymer: Okay.

(04:53) Tabatha Thorell: I was a coach. We had these different businesses and were raising our kids. We didn’t have a really good mentor that was pushing us. Sometimes I look back and think, “Oh, I wish we would have been a little bit more aggressive,” but the season that we were in was the season we were in, and we were scared.

(05:12) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(05:14) Tabatha Thorell: We didn’t have the right mentorship. I did seek out a few different coaching groups, but they just—the reviews weren’t great. It was a lot of fluff and a lot of things we already knew, and I needed someone that was going to up-level us.

So we just didn’t really jump on that. What I did was I just invested in me. I hired coaches and did things for my mindset and my money mindset because I knew it wasn’t just about real estate.

(05:35) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(05:43) Tabatha Thorell: Because that’s only gonna take you so far. I was like, “I have to change my mind on business. I had to change my mind on money, on fulfillment, like what it meant with our kids and all of the things.” I knew that was gonna take time developing me.

We just slowly accumulated more properties when they would come up. There would be days that I’d say, “We’re selling all of our properties. I’m so sick of this,” because honestly, we did it all ourselves until just recently.

(06:13) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(06:18) Tabatha Thorell: We started hiring out plumbers and stuff like that because my husband can do it, but he hates it. So we started slowly hiring stuff out.

(06:25) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(06:27) Tabatha Thorell: Probably eight years ago, we started hiring out that kind of stuff, but he was still fixing everything. We were still dealing with all the tenants. We were doing all the fulfillment, meaning all the applications and stuff.

(06:39) Mattias Clymer: And?

(06:40) Tabatha Thorell: The first thing I tell people is to get a really good property manager. We were living in fear. We just kept doing what we knew because the ROI was really good. We were still growing, and we were kind of like, “If it’s not broke, don’t fix it.”

But then the way we wanted to scale, we were like, “There’s no way we can scale at this rate.” We have five kids now. I was running a coaching business. I was like, “I can’t property manage all these properties.”

(07:10) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(07:15) Tabatha Thorell: In the next two to three years, we will more than double our properties that we have. They’re all single-family, some duplexes, some quadplexes, but for the most part, that’s kind of what we stick to.

We have some storage units that we’re negotiating.

(07:29) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(07:30) Tabatha Thorell: My husband likes to work with RV parks and storage units. That’s kind of where his sweet spot is right now. Of course, we would love a big multi-unit apartment building.

That hasn’t been available for us yet, but we’re always open to that now. Five years ago, we probably would have been more hesitant, but now we have the systems and the mindset to actually obtain that and not kill us or kill our marriage because that was something too.

(07:57) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(08:01) Tabatha Thorell: I was like, “We can’t have all this and then crumble because what’s the point, right?”

(08:03) Mattias Clymer: Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it’s always different. It’s different for everybody.

(08:09) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah.

(08:09) Mattias Clymer: First of all, I don’t have tons of handyman skills. I never really learned them, and it was never something that I loved or had any passion for.

(08:14) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah. Yeah.

(08:20) Mattias Clymer: I started off as a realtor, so I got really busy with sales before really starting to accumulate property. And I decided from the get-go, “If I have to feel like I need to go fix everything that ever comes up, I’m going to hate this. I’m going to stop.”

(08:38) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah.

(08:39) Mattias Clymer: So I just drew that line from the very beginning. I don’t think there’s a right answer there. Some people see that they have to fix the toilets to start, to get to where they want to go.

(08:48) Tabatha Thorell: Right.

(08:49) Mattias Clymer: And that’s fine. I think it’s more about analyzing where you are, what you really want, the purpose of everything you’re doing, and how to get there. Planning and being intentional to get to that end game is key.

(09:05) Tabatha Thorell: Well, don’t get me wrong. What I would tell people now is to work on your money limiting beliefs because that’s what held us back.

(09:13) Mattias Clymer: OK.

(09:14) Tabatha Thorell: I love his dad, but his dad was very much like, “A guy has to do it himself, or he’ll never make any money.”

Both of our dads were extremely hardworking, blue-collar men. His dad was a farmer. My dad was an electrician. So we just had that mindset—”We’re just going to do it ourselves.” My husband is a perfectionist, so if we did hire it out and it didn’t happen the way he wanted, he would just be frustrated because then he’d have to redo it anyway.

(09:35) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(09:43) Tabatha Thorell: So, you know, it was kind of that mindset. In the beginning, we were counting every single dime and every single nickel.

If we had grown faster and had the right mentorship, I think we could have jumped over that a little bit and put it off to other people who had the skill set. We could have gone through that learning curve early. But again, we were both kind of scared, and we both didn’t know, so we just took it on ourselves.

(10:10) Mattias Clymer: Yeah, yeah.

(10:11) Tabatha Thorell: I don’t recommend that to people because you do burn out, even if you can do it. It’s almost bad that my husband has such a great skill set because he can fix anything, honestly.

He can do it by himself because he’s done it so long. He’s like MacGyver; he does stuff that two men are supposed to do. He’s like, “You’re just lucky that I actually am willing to do this,” because most people don’t. But he’ll just do it to get the job done. He doesn’t want to wait.

(10:46) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(10:46) Tabatha Thorell: It’s like a double-edged sword because I think it did get us started, and we weren’t fearful going in.

(10:48) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(10:52) Tabatha Thorell: We’re never fearful of a house with a bad foundation or a leaky roof or whatever. People go in and are like, “Oh my gosh, this house is disgusting.” That doesn’t scare us because we’re like, “Well, you can fix that.”

But somebody who doesn’t have that skill set, where they think, “Oh my gosh, I can’t even imagine coming in and fixing this,” then they stop. So again, it’s like that give and take.

(11:15) Mattias Clymer: Yeah. That’s a good point. I think you really do. And I think I learned a lot about flips—not me actually doing the flips, but through managing them.

(11:24) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah.

(11:24) Mattias Clymer: I feel like I learned a lot about how much you can salvage and how far $30,000 can go. An ugly house seems like to a

lot of people like, “Oh my gosh, this is going to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars,” when it’s like, “No, that’s going to be like 30.”

(11:28) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah.

(11:31) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah, you can do this. There was a quote that said, “Give me $100,000, and this house can be made over easily, but only give me $20,000, and see what can happen.”

If you really want to challenge yourself, you stretch that budget. That was one of the things in the beginning for us that was a blessing. It didn’t seem like it at the time, but we didn’t have a big budget, so we were able to stretch it.

(12:05) Mattias Clymer: Right.

(12:06) Tabatha Thorell: We were able to be creative. We were able to be inventive. I just listened to a podcast where a guy talked about that. He said being broke can really help you because you have to be creative when you don’t have any other options.

In the beginning, we didn’t have any other options. We would stay up late. It stretched our determination muscle. It stretched our persistence muscle. It stretched us, being tired and doing it anyway, and still learning to have a good attitude and keeping our marriage top-notch because that was always important for us.

(12:40) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(13:06) Tabatha Thorell: Well, that was a skill set that we learned in the trenches when it was really hard, when we were both tired and irritable and had babies and tenants and renovation projects. Now, when you’re in it, it sucks, and you’re like, “Please, God, send somebody to help us.” But when you’re in it, it’s really stretching that muscle and building that muscle.

Now, where we’re at, our growth can happen like 10X, and we can actually handle it, and it won’t crumble us. I think a lot of people want that success. They want that million dollars or that seven-figure portfolio. But do you have what it takes to withstand that?

I’m not just talking about systems and people and business. I’m talking about the mental, the characteristics that it really takes to withstand that. I can sit here today and say, “Yes, we can.”

(13:36) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(13:43) Tabatha Thorell: I mean, will it still be a struggle and a stretch? Absolutely. I hope so because everything worth having is that.

But that’s what you have to look at in the journey.

(13:45) Mattias Clymer: If you’re not growing, if you’re not pushing yourself, you’re staying in your comfort zone.

(14:00) Tabatha Thorell: Yep.

(14:07) Mattias Clymer: Then it’s—it doesn’t lead to fulfillment. I think that pushing through the hard stuff and getting past it is one of the key areas that you just feel so good afterwards.

Even when everything seems to be falling apart and it’s just pouring on you from every direction, if you remember that when you get through it and things are good again, you’re going to appreciate that moment so much more.

(14:07) Tabatha Thorell: Yep. Yep.

(14:21) Mattias Clymer: Because you felt how bad it was there for a minute, and you got through it, and you persevered.

(14:24) Tabatha Thorell: Yes. And you’re so much better off. It’s like you’re a completely different person, whether you recognize it or not.

So when that happens again, it doesn’t even seem like a storm. There’s stuff that happens now that if this happened 10 years ago, I would have been like, “Oh my gosh, this is horrible.” And now it’s like, “Okay, this is just a little shower. We’re fine.” And then we’ll have something that will feel like a hurricane, and we’ll come out of it, and we’ll be better people, and you know the cycle continues.

That’s just life. People always say, “It’s not about the destination; it’s about the journey,” and you’re like, “I just want to get to it.” But the thing is, if you truly understand the journey, when you do get there, it’s exciting. You have this sense of, “Man, this is really cool. I could do this again. I want to do this again.”

(15:01) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(15:13) Tabatha Thorell: It was worth all the things. It’s kind of like—I mean, you’re not a female, but like when you’re pregnant, when you go through it, it’s like there are pregnancy—there are really good things about pregnancy, and then there are things that suck during it.

When you go through it, and when you’re done, you’re like, “Okay, I can do that again,” right? But when you’re in it, when you’re like 10 months pregnant like me—because all my kids were overdue—you’re like, “I’m in the summer, I’m going through 26 hours of labor, this is horrible.”

But then at the end of it, it’s like, “Oh my gosh, I would do this 10 times over to get the same feeling.” And that’s what happens, like whether it’s real estate, whether it’s a business, marriage, all of those things.

(15:44) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(15:46) Tabatha Thorell: But when we get in it, and we get in our own head, and the enemy pulls us that way, and we’re stuck in frustration, and maybe the bills are piling up, and that investment doesn’t seem like a good investment, trust the process, you know, especially with real estate.

Because unless you got really duped—which I’m not saying that doesn’t happen—there’s always redemption there. It’s just about being creative. And that’s the thing that I think, like I said before, when you’re forced to be creative, and you’re forced to bootstrap it and do everything yourself or find—you know, trade services or find a contractor that’s just starting out and then helping him along the way.

(16:38) Mattias Clymer: Hmm.

(16:39) Tabatha Thorell: We’ve done that because my husband knows what to do, and so we’ve helped people get businesses off the ground. Then he helps them, and he—you know, vice versa—and you be creative. Then pretty soon, that investment that you thought was horrible can turn around and be the best one yet.

(16:39) Mattias Clymer: That’s great. No, I love that. You mentioned family, you mentioned having to go through the hard stuff with your husband. How do you maintain the balance? What are some key strategies you’ve figured out to maintain balance with your relationship and your kids? It sounds like both of you are on board and on this real estate journey, and you’re both high achievers. It takes a toll. How do you manage?

(17:23) Tabatha Thorell: Well, silly Matthias, there’s no balance. There’s never a balance on anything. I get this question more often than not.

Here’s the thing, there isn’t. But that’s okay, because I’m balanced. I think it’s about who I am as a female.

(17:30) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(17:39) Tabatha Thorell: And if I feel centered and balanced—and what I mean by that is, is my health on point? Is my spiritual life on point? Motherhood—do I feel like, “Okay, this is what—I’m feeling really fulfilled there.” Business-wise, investment-wise—am I feeling excited about stuff, or do I wake up with dread? That’s when I know that things are just off.

Then I have to go internal and think, “Okay, why am I doing this? Am I doing this for significance? Am I just trying to get somebody to say, ‘Good job, Tab, awesome’? Or am I doing this to help my family financially so we can go on a vacation and have a great experience together?”

(18:31) Tabatha Thorell: Am I doing this to be a role model for my daughters? So it always comes back to that why. I know that is a term now that can be overused, but it really does help anchor me and keep me balanced.

Because if I’m doing something just to show off or be like, “I need to prove myself,” because in my 20s, I felt like I had to prove myself. Just growing up kind of chubby and with a whole bunch of baggage, I felt like I had to prove that I was worth it, like I had to prove it.

(19:01) Tabatha Thorell: So I’ll find myself being pulled to that, and I’m like, “Wait a second, why are you doing this? What are you needing?”

(19:03) Mattias Clymer: Hmm.

(19:06) Tabatha Thorell: If my marriage is off, if I’m bickering with my husband and nitpicking him and just saying, “Oh, you never do this,” and I find myself just being super critical of him, that’s something with me—that has nothing to do with him. He is the same person. I mean, we all change and grow, but at the core, he is the man I fell in love with.

I think that’s what a lot of people forget. It’s like, why

did you fall in love with them? Because they’re still there.

(19:33) Mattias Clymer: Mm-hmm.

(19:33) Tabatha Thorell: And if something is happening, it’s usually a “you” problem. So I just look at me and say, “Okay, what can I do?” Like, if me and my husband have a little tiff, and we’re just bickering—it’s the everything.

Couples know it’s just like, “I just tripped over your shoe, and you’re mad.” And it’s like, “Really? Was that a big deal?” No. So then I go like, “What’s happening?”

(19:47) Mattias Clymer: Right.

(19:56) Tabatha Thorell: Okay, I’m feeling frustrated because we’re not progressing in this business part of it. Or maybe I’m feeling a little insecure as a mom because right now I have two teenagers, two toddlers, and one in between. So it’s like, I don’t know how to navigate this. I’ve never parented teenagers, right?

(20:10) Mattias Clymer: Right.

(20:12) Tabatha Thorell: So if I’m feeling insecure about that, it can come out in my marriage. Or if I feel very unfulfilled in my business life—if I feel like I’m just grinding out and not getting results—I will take that out on my husband or my kids.

I have to say, “Okay, Tab, what’s going on here? What do you need to do? Take time for yourself, figure this out.” Because the why always is, “How can I be the best version of myself for my kids, for my husband, for my business?”

(20:45) Tabatha Thorell: If that’s not it, then there’s something going on. And that’s for me, that’s how I get the balance, or I just anchor myself.

(20:52) Mattias Clymer: Well, is that something you do intentionally, or is that something—it sounds like you maybe ask yourself that question on a regular basis.

Do you have any systems that you would like—do you journal in the morning or something like that to help with that process?

(21:07) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah, so I used to journal really avidly before baby number four. She’s almost three, and she still doesn’t like to sleep through the night. So I’d like to get back to journaling.

(21:15) Mattias Clymer: Yeah, yeah.

(21:20) Tabatha Thorell: Honestly, and this sounds so stupid, and people—you can make fun of me all you want—but I’ll go—we live in a small town, and so I’ll just walk in the country, and I just talk out loud. I’ll talk out loud to God.

(21:29) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(21:30) Tabatha Thorell: Sometimes I scream. People probably think I’m a crazy person if they see it, but I verbally get it out. That is probably, for me right now in my season, the best way.

(21:40) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(21:43) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(21:44) Tabatha Thorell: Journaling is a better way because you can go back and look at it and analyze it. But sometimes I just need to get it out. Like, sometimes I just need to be like—sometimes in the shower, I’ll lock my door. It’s the only time I can get alone time with my kids. I’ll lock the door and even play worship music, and I’ll just be like, “Oh my gosh, why am I acting like this?” Or in the car if I am alone.

I get all those frustrations out. And I talk with God. It’s my conversations with God that I have because he’s the only one who knows me.

(22:15) Tabatha Thorell: And he can lead me in the right direction. Usually, what I’m mad about or frustrated about is not the actual thing. It gets me out of myself.

(22:22) Mattias Clymer: Right.

(22:26) Tabatha Thorell: And I know my tendencies. I tend to get frustrated. I’m a very fast-paced person. I’m very passionate about stuff, which is great.

But on the flip side, I can get frustrated and mad and annoyed with things. I can get really opinionated about stuff. And then I have to just stop and say, “Is this serving me? How can we switch it so it does serve me?” And then again, like, “Am I in alignment with who I want to be?” which is an amazing mom, an awesome wife.

(22:54) Mattias Clymer: I love it.

(22:56) Tabatha Thorell: I want to make an impact on the world and have fun doing it. The more money you have, the more you can give.

I just have visions of anonymously giving people cars and sending kids on mission trips or to big youth conferences—kids who can’t afford it, especially in the community we live in. It’s a very blue-collar area with amazing people, but they don’t have a lot of room for extras. So if I could buy that kid who would love to have name-brand sneakers, all of a sudden they’re in his locker.

(23:29) Tabatha Thorell: But anonymously. Those are the things that I know I can do with money.

(23:29) Mattias Clymer: No.

(23:33) Tabatha Thorell: So when we’re building businesses, I look at it that way.

(23:34) Mattias Clymer: Okay.

(23:37) Tabatha Thorell: When we don’t meet our mark, I’m like, “Dang it, I don’t get to bless somebody.” And that makes me mad.

(23:54) Mattias Clymer: Sure.

(23:56) Mattias Clymer: That’s interesting. Now, I’m a verbal processor, which you might be as well.

(24:00) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah.

(24:01) Mattias Clymer: I’ve found sometimes even like ChatGPT or some sort of AI—you can almost use it like a pseudo-therapist.

(24:08) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah.

(24:10) Mattias Clymer: Don’t tell Erica I said this. I’m glad she’s not here right now. But you can have a conversation and just the process of getting that out.

There’s an AI system—I don’t remember the name—that was actually designed to ask you questions, like, “Oh, that’s interesting,” in response. But for me, what’s easiest and best is if I can say it out loud. So I should probably go do tick walks around my neighborhood and yell as well.

(24:33) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah.

(24:38) Tabatha Thorell: I highly recommend it. Sometimes I coach myself. I’ll pretend like I am a client of myself, like, “What would you tell somebody who is whining and complaining right now? What would you do, Tab?”

It works for me because I just get out of my own head. So many people, like listeners on here, just need to get out of their own heads.

(25:02) Mattias Clymer: Mm.

(25:02) Tabatha Thorell: Whether that’s journaling, whether that’s verbal, yeah, do an AI thing—whatever it takes—because it diffuses it. It’s in the Bible. It talks about that. When you verbally say it, it’s kind of like letting your light shine. When you say it, when you expose it, it’s not so heinous.

(25:36) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(25:36) Tabatha Thorell: A lot of times, even in marriages when people have quarrels or fights, they just bottle it up. If they just released it, they’d realize it really doesn’t hold so much power.

When you hold it in for years and years, it just eats at you, and the stuff that really isn’t that big becomes big.

(25:38) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(25:40) Tabatha Thorell: Even with my husband and me, there’s some stuff that I’m like, “He doesn’t need to know that I’m mad at him for that because there’s really nothing that he can do.” It’s my issue, but I still need to get it out.

There’s no need to say it to him and berate him and make him feel horrible about something that one, he probably doesn’t have control over, or two, what he did—my response is my responsibility, not his, for what he did. So I don’t need to make a big deal about everything.

(26:13) Mattias Clymer: Right.

(26:16) Tabatha Thorell: Now, if it is something like parenting or in our relationship that he’s doing that’s causing conflict, of course, I’ll talk to him. But if it’s the fact that he—not that this happened—but like, leaves the shoes out in the living room, is that really going to be the end of the world? No. Why do I have an issue with that? I need to work through those things.

(26:37) Mattias Clymer: Right.

(26:37) Tabatha Thorell: A

lot of people say, “Well, my marriage is perfect. My husband does everything for me.” And it’s like, that’s not true. My husband and I are as strong as they come because we’ve gone through the fire and back. That is why we are still strong. We’ve been together for almost 20 years.

I mean, we’re still young, but we’re not the same people as we were 20 years ago. If you think that you’re going to be with somebody and there’s not going to be conflict, you’re fooling yourself.

(27:01) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(27:08) Tabatha Thorell: If you’re like, “Oh, I’m just going to marry this person, and everything’s going to be hunky-dory,” that’s not going to happen.

And that kind of leads to the Legacy Wealth Project that you were talking about. We have found in our years that 70% of wealth is gone by the second generation. And then 90% of wealth is gone by the third generation.

(27:27) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(27:29) Tabatha Thorell: And that is horrifying to me. You can see that in big organizations, big businesses, real estate moguls. It doesn’t matter what the business is, but after the second and third generation, it doesn’t last.

And why is that? There’s a lot of reasons for that. But one of them, I feel, is because they didn’t have that struggle to get there.

(27:51) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(28:00) Tabatha Thorell: There are also lots of reasons why people lose their wealth. One of them is not having the same work ethic as their parents. It’s like when you look at, let’s say, a farmer who is like the first generation coming over from Ireland, and he’s got 12 kids.

His dad was in a potato famine, and they were working their butts off to create that land, to buy that land. And then they pass it to the kids, and the kids maybe hold onto it.

But by the third generation, they don’t know what it’s like to go to bed hungry. They don’t know what it’s like to have to, you know, scrape every dollar or be resourceful. And so they don’t have that same work ethic.

(28:18) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(28:19) Tabatha Thorell: They have money just given to them. They don’t understand the value of that money, so they just squander it. And I was like, “That’s not going to be our legacy.”

So our project, which I just did a small beta, and I’ll be doing a bigger launch next year, is the Legacy Wealth Project. And it is for families that don’t want to just build wealth but want to pass it on and actually grow it and teach their kids financial literacy.

(28:44) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(28:45) Tabatha Thorell: Because I don’t care if you’re a doctor or if you’re just a business owner. If you do not teach your kids the value of money and how to manage money and how to save and spend it and invest it, then they will not understand the power of it. It’s a tool.

You know, a lot of times people talk about money as if it’s bad. Well, it just depends on who has it. And it can make you good or it can make you bad, depending on the person who holds it.

And so the Legacy Wealth Project is to help people pass it on, pass on that legacy, but not just the money. The values, the work ethic, the characteristics that have to come with it, so they can grow it even more. You don’t want it to stop with you.

(29:11) Mattias Clymer: Hmm.

(29:16) Tabatha Thorell: Because that’s not a legacy. And the other piece is helping families understand that wealth doesn’t just mean money. It means your health, your marriage, your spiritual life, and your faith.

If you have all the money in the world but your health is horrible, then that’s not wealth. That is just poverty with money. If you have money and your marriage is on the rocks and you and your wife aren’t even talking or you and your kids are at odds, that’s not wealth either.

So it’s about all of those things. It’s a holistic approach to building wealth. And with this Legacy Wealth Project, we teach not only the financial piece but the marriage piece, the family piece, and how to teach your kids how to invest and how to be generous with it.

Because we believe that you can make money, but it really isn’t worth it if you’re not able to help people and be generous with it. We try to incorporate all of those things into the project.

(30:05) Mattias Clymer: That’s awesome. I think that when you talk about wealth disappearing by the third generation, I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind is probably people who feel entitled to the wealth. That seems to be, from my outside view, a big problem with the next generation that inherits wealth.

(30:20) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah.

(30:24) Mattias Clymer: So what are the steps you’re taking, or what do you recommend? How do you get the next generation to appreciate what they have and not feel like they’re owed it, not feel like they deserve it, not be irresponsible with it?

(30:34) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah, that’s a really great question, and it’s something that’s dear to my heart because I’m raising five kids right now. And our oldest is 15, so it’s a question I ask myself every day.

And I’m thinking, “Okay, what can I do?” And I think the biggest thing is teaching them the value of work. And I’m not talking about chores like, “Hey, you have to go do the dishes.”

Because I’ve found myself falling into the trap of just telling them, “You have to go do the dishes or go make your bed.” But it’s more about giving them responsibility, letting them fail, letting them fall, and letting them realize the consequence of that.

(31:00) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(31:07) Tabatha Thorell: It’s hard for us, especially as moms, to let our kids fail. But I’ve learned that when you let them fail in a controlled environment, it’s going to be better for them in the long run. Because when they’re out there and the stakes are higher, they’ll know what to do, and they’ll have already experienced failure in some capacity.

And that’s the piece where I think a lot of parents fail—they don’t want to see their kids fail, so they step in and save them. And then when the kids get out on their own, they don’t know how to handle failure. And they don’t know how to handle responsibility because they never had it growing up.

(31:28) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(31:36) Tabatha Thorell: So that’s one of the biggest things that we do in our family. We give them responsibility. And when they mess up, we let them know that it’s okay, but there are consequences for that. And we let them experience those consequences.

And then when they succeed, we let them know that’s great, but it’s because they put in the work. It’s not just because they’re awesome or because they’re special. It’s because they actually did the work, and that’s what led to their success.

(31:47) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(31:50) Tabatha Thorell: And I think that’s a big piece that’s missing in a lot of families today—teaching kids that success is not just handed to you. It’s something you have to work for. And when you work for it, you appreciate it more, and you’re more likely to take care of it.

(32:00) Mattias Clymer: Yeah. I think that’s a huge piece.

(32:03) Tabatha Thorell: And the other thing is, we have to set the example as parents. We can’t just tell our kids to work hard and then not work hard ourselves. We have to show them that we’re willing to put in the effort, that we’re willing to do what it takes to succeed.

And when they see that, they’re more likely to follow suit. They’re more likely to adopt that mindset and that work ethic because they see it in us.

(32:14) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(32:15) Tabatha Thorell: And so that’s something we really try to do in our family. We try to set the example. We try to show our kids what it means to work hard, what it means to take responsibility, and what it means to be successful.

And when they see that, they’re more likely to do the same. And that’s how you build a legacy that lasts. It’s not just about the money. It’s about the values and the work ethic that you pass down to your kids.

(32:31) Mattias Clymer: Yeah.

(32:36) Tabatha Thorell: And when they have that, they’re more likely to take care of the wealth that you’ve built and grow it even further.

(32:39) Mattias Clymer: That’s a great point. I think that’s something that a lot of people overlook. They focus so

much on the money, but they don’t realize that it’s the values and the work ethic that really make the difference in the long run.

(32:48) Tabatha Thorell: Absolutely. And that’s what we’re trying to do with the Legacy Wealth Project. We’re trying to help families build that foundation, build those values, and pass them on to the next generation.

Because that’s what really matters. That’s what’s going to make the difference. And that’s what’s going to help you build a legacy that lasts.

(33:01) Mattias Clymer: I love that. That’s so important. And I think that’s something that a lot of people can benefit from, whether they’re just starting out in their investment journey or they’ve been at it for a while.

(33:10) Tabatha Thorell: Yeah.

(33:13) Mattias Clymer: It’s never too late to start building that foundation, to start instilling those values in your kids, and to start building a legacy that will last for generations.

(33:17) Tabatha Thorell: Exactly. And that’s what we’re here for. That’s what we want to help people do. Because it’s not just about the money. It’s about so much more than that. And when you focus on the right things, the money will follow. The success will follow. The legacy will follow.

(33:24) Mattias Clymer: That’s fantastic. Well, Tabatha, thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing your wisdom with us. I think there’s a lot of great takeaways here that our listeners can really benefit from.

(33:36) Tabatha Thorell: Thank you, Matthias. It’s been a pleasure. I’m excited to see what your audience does with this information. I’m excited to see the legacies that they build.

(33:39) Mattias Clymer: Absolutely. Well, thanks again for being on the show, and we’ll catch up soon.

(33:42) Tabatha Thorell: Sounds good. Thanks, Matthias.